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ex not obeying final court order

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Jan1984 View Drop Down
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  Quote Jan1984 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Topic: ex not obeying final court order
    Posted: 21/March/2017 at 15:49
I am in the process for applying variation of existing parenting order. Just started.

My ex partner has been randomly picking up the child from primary school and withholding her for on 1-2 nights, not letting her attending school, wont notify me or school at all.

I am wondering is there anything i can do at this stage to stop him doing so? If I have to wait for the long lasting court procedure and eventually, the order made say i have full custody, can he still go pick the child up from school like this without my consent? If he really does that , can the police stop him straightaway? What would happen if ex not obeying family order at all, ( he seriously never care about police or school), say just every now and then, withholding her randomly for 1-2 nights, anyways to stop him or not really ? =(

I just want to know what I would be looking forward for the next school years. Will my daughter's education constantly interrupted like this? my ex is determined to fight against me. He has refused to attend mediation or discuss anything about care arrangement issues.

Thanks heaps!!

rannii View Drop Down
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  Quote rannii Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 21/March/2017 at 21:26
Apply for an enforcement order. Its fewer hurdles to jump over to get to court.

talk to the school.   Unsure which state you are in, but its illegal to stop a child attending school in QLD, and absences need to be notified.

My school kids need to be collected from the school office within school time (or I need to provide consent at after school care) - provide the school with the court orders & they will not release the child to him.

Jan1984 View Drop Down
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  Quote Jan1984 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 22/March/2017 at 10:03
Thanks so much. I am in Victoria. Last time I spoke to school about her absense, they were not supportive, the lady basically said to me my ex can do anything he wants, withdraw the child anytime as he pleased or not sending kid to school at all. she said no laws for that, and education is not enforced. I am unsure if thats the case.

But yeah, i first need to get the existing order varied and possibly add conditions that he can not collect child from school. Working with my lawyer for that, hopefully not taking very long !

emca01 View Drop Down
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  Quote emca01 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 22/March/2017 at 12:46
So you want court orders that dictate when he sees child AND that he be restrained from taking her from school. If you get those orders and give them to the school you can apply pressure to them so that they understand they are not allowed to release child to dad .

BUT that requires a judge... Do you currently have court orders pertaining to the child?

Jan1984 View Drop Down
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  Quote Jan1984 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 23/March/2017 at 13:41
Hey Emca,

Yes we do have a family order from 3 years ago, which is very vague, didnt say anything at all but we share parental responsibility. Everytime, my ex decided to have the child when he is in the mood, he would just randomly pick her up from kinder or school, and withhold her for few days. When he is not in mood, he just dumps the kid to my home and disappear for weeks.

I do have an intervention order on him currently based on his violent behavior towards me.He has already had a few breaches on that, however police informed their hands are tight, if he refuses to answer the door, then police cant do anything. And because that old family law order didnt state anything, he basically just doing whatever he was doing previously to the IVO. Lol nothing changed at all after the IVO. very frustrating. =(

Also he refused communication with me for any care arrangement...

I said to my lawyer that I would like full custody for the child, and they have been preparing application for me.

emca01 View Drop Down
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  Quote emca01 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 24/March/2017 at 06:59
I'm sorry to be writing this.... BUT - learn to accept it.
WHAT? so you go to court - you get orders saying he can see the child at specific times... He continues to do what he wants... You go back to court, he is given a warning... HE continues.... You go back to court, he is given another warning... By now 2 or 3 years have passed...

My thinking - learn to accept it. BUT wait - once the child is older you could have a conversation with the child about refusing to go with dad.... But for the minute, I think you need to accept that the courts really are not the big stick that we'd like to think they are...

Jan1984 View Drop Down
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  Quote Jan1984 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 24/March/2017 at 16:12
Hi Emca,

Yea, i was thinking about 'to accept it'. This week, he randomly picked kid up from school for 2 nights, i met with kid at school both the following morning, kid was super distressed and anxious from lack of sleep, and whatever other reason is. she was not her usual self, doesnt want to play, appeared very scared for i dont know whatever reason is.

As a mum, i really feel like i failed on her for this. I wont count on her refusing to go to dad, because even now he treats her like this, she still likes to go to his. lol I dont know if later on, she will change her mind.

I previously thought a new family order will stop this. but now i think of it, he can still do anything he wants, it will take ages for court or police to really stop him. it is just really frustrating.

emca01 View Drop Down
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  Quote emca01 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 25/March/2017 at 08:42
call relationships Australia and ask him to attend mediation with them.

Might help. Look I think you want to try and get him onside on working with you. So making beneficial arrangements for the kid... Agreed times etc etc

Jan1984 View Drop Down
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  Quote Jan1984 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 27/March/2017 at 15:41
I did family mediation last year, booked the time, and he did not even bother to show up or answer their phone calls. =(

Sonata View Drop Down
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  Quote Sonata Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 28/March/2017 at 08:00
Do you reckon the IVO and the complaints about breaching it are good motivation for him to communicate with you about care arrangements?

Would you say that meeting the kid at school both mornings after nights at the father's that you're inadvertently teaching the kid that her dad is dangerous, or that she shouldn't be going there, that maybe that distress and anxiety is more about your reaction to her seeing her dad than it is about actually seeing her dad?

If you don't have orders that specifically state when the kid can see her dad, then he's perfectly within his right to do what he's doing. If it doesn't suit you, then instead of doing what you're doing, you need to take it back to Court. Alternatively, learn to accept it and stop projecting your anxiety about the Court orders that you won't change on to your child.

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  Quote Jan1984 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 30/March/2017 at 12:01
Hi, thanks for you reply. Yes i agree with IVO and his breaches could be the reasons that he now refused to communicate with me for any care arrangement at all. But he refused to communicate with me for care arrangement the situation has been like that for 3 years. it all depends on his mood. And he also uses texts harassment in threatening tone towards me when he is angry with his life. After 3 years, i finally had enough thats why i applied the IVO and hope things would stop. However he has breached 5 times, and i havnt seen any police action on it since he deliberately tries to avoid to see any police.

My lawyer has been working on the court application. hopefully we will put in next week or so. For now, I do not have much hope for it either, if he can breach an IVO, he also wont care about breaching a family order. I realized that i do not have any choices but just to live with it.

As for the kid, i have never told her father is dangerous that she shouldnt hang out with him. And everytime i meet her in the morning, i am always happy. But yeah she always very tired, upset and extremely angry and agitated when she returns from his care. she'd say no, yell for every of my suggestion. I do not know why, although after a while or taking whole night for me to settle her in my routine, she finally happy again. I seriously do not know what she been doing with the father in his care which results she changing into another different personality.

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  Quote Sonata Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 30/March/2017 at 12:58
Why are you going to her school after she's spent time with her father?

Why don't you just let her go to school without interrupting her?

Just because you don't say the father is a bad person, doesn't mean you aren't implying it in other ways.

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  Quote Irish Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 30/March/2017 at 14:02
It sounds from the other comments that maybe there isn't much you can do to stop him.
Maybe you should just go to collect your daughter at the end of school when she does get there rather than going in the mornings. (call school to see if she is there first I guess if you don't know if shes there every day)
In terms of the behaviour problems, just make it clear that you have rules in your house and you expect that she will follow them and behave in a certain way when she returns to your house. my partners son can sometimes be badly behaved as soon as he visits just trying to push boundaries but we put him straight and he quickly realises he wont get away with it. People think kids have to have one set of rules in both houses but that isn't the case.
Also it sounds harsh but you don't get to decide what he does with his daughter in his time unless he is harming her, the same for your time. Just let her know you want to make sure she isn't getting behind in school, that is causing your worry and maybe you could get the teacher to give her a book to keep in her bag that includes work in case her dad keeps her out of school. when shes there even if she completes a little bit of it.

how old is your daughter?

Jan1984 View Drop Down
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  Quote Jan1984 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03/April/2017 at 13:27
Because she has school items at my place, the father did not give me notice in advance, sometimes she has library books or such item or school jumper for the next day. The father actually demands me to meet them at school the next morning.

Jan1984 View Drop Down
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  Quote Jan1984 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03/April/2017 at 14:49
Yes, I talked to my lawyer last Friday, we both agreed that we can do everything we can, make an interim order or family order saying that he can not pick her up and such. But its not going to stop him from picking her up from school and withholding her. And the case is not strong enough for child protection to get involved, like she is not in any immediate danger. She is suffering psychological harm, but not major to get them people involved. Basically he still does whatever he wants.

My daughter is 5.5 year old now. she already knows there are two sets of rules. it often takes about 1 day for her to get used to my house rules. If she stays with him longer say about one week, it will take longer for her to get used to. I am just sometimes worried about her teenager year, what she will be like given that her father is a careless person, do not care about any rules or schools or police. But yeah, i get that worry doesn't solve anything.

it is a good idea that I go talk to the teacher, maybe leave a book for her to do while she away! i would do that! Thanks for that =)

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  Quote Irish Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04/April/2017 at 07:37
I think there is obviously a toss up between doing what is best for you, your daughter and giving in to his demands. I certainly would not be meeting them in the morning and if he has a problem with it he can deal with it. By giving in you may be perpetuating the behaviour. e.g. if she needs these things he should deal with it if he is taking her but also it will allow your daughter to tell him she needs them and put the onus back on him a bit.

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  Quote Irish Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04/April/2017 at 07:40
Also with regards to her when she is older and her attitude, all you can do is your best to instill good behaviours and attitudes! if you are doing this she will soon realise the difference between right and wrong and may hopefully make the right choices when required.

Jan1984 View Drop Down
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  Quote Jan1984 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04/April/2017 at 13:20
Yes i agree with it, maybe i did give in to fill up his pleasure in this game. However, just thinking of her missing those fun things in activities in school or being cold for whole day while other kids having proper clothing is enough to kill me for the day TT. He will definitely not care if she misses those things, if she carries on blame him, he would just leave her at home not even bother sending her to school at all which would be worse, as she said to me he would just lock her up in the room, or leave her watch tv all day long. the father never cared about schooling, or police or any authority at all in his life.

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  Quote Irish Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05/April/2017 at 14:53
its so mad that in this day and age in Australia that is allowed. in the UK you get fined if you have your kids out of school in term time and jail terms now too.

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  Quote rannii Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05/April/2017 at 19:52
Its tough,

the end of the day you need to arm your daughter to fight her own battles. We recently had the speech given in our newsletter.

Kids need to learn to get their own things organized. They are responsible for their jumpers and like. They older she gets, the more vocal she will get. I know my 5 year old will tantrum if I try to drive off without having his items.

Let you daughter know that if she needs anything for school etc, then she can always swing by your house to collect it in the morning.   IF she has a library book etc, learn to drop it off into the office AFTER school has started, so your daughter isn't impacted.

Jumpers, I am assuming its school uniform, so other kids wont notice if she wears the same jumper 2 days running. Assuming you sent her into the jumper, then there is no issue.

A lot of times, these issues seem bigger then they actually are. Stop "fighting" so much, and you will find that things settle down. HIS argument is with you, and not with the kid. If he doesn't get a reaction from you, for something he does, you will find he will quickly lose interest.

Also, as she grows and becomes a teenager, she will find her voice and he will either need to ship up, or she will start finding ways to avoid him.


Stand your ground, its tough to begin with - but it does reap benefits.

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