16 Comments Family & de facto law, financial agreements, consent orders
Just sounds like some tit for tat shenanigans in the local court regarding allegations to secure an AVO... I doubt the FC judge will make to much of it to be honest..
There has to be reasonable grounds to believe that a party has engaged in FV, & even then it has to be viewed in context & what effect removing or restricting PR may have, particularly on the children..
Fair crack there Martino,bout as blunt as a safety pin fella.No sleight of hand ,merely trying to condense but since you invited so cordially......
Separated after Easter 2012 after 12+ which produced 1 child(5)
.My idea was shared parenting ex's was child was hers basically & if anything then maybe 2hrs a month visit Saturday arvos.Until then,don't contact me,just disappear .
I drafted a decent parenting plan & left it for her to return it 2 me after a week with highlighted concerns/wishes etc.She completely disregarded it.
I would ring or text her daily to request contact with our child or at least talk with her.Some she answered and blasted me,some went to messagebank and were ignored.Occasionally I would get to chat with our daughter-ex was closer than earshot or I was put on speakerphone-was told later"she's 5 she has no privacy stupid".
3 separate times I thought I had secured a visit to occur only to have ex curtail that twice on the night before visit and final time was 3 hours before agreed arrival time.That was the convincer to me that she was unable to put our daughter before her now obvious hate of me
.I had said day of split we owed it to our girl to sit & compromise arrangements ourselves & keep her out of the courts process.We both agreed we had run our race,we both love her,we both created her but most importantly she loves both and her rights prevail anyway.
Honestly thought it was heat of battle type stance taken by ex & she would soon see logic & granted during them first few weeks as the penny was dropping and after ringing her to be hung up on I would send text in no way threatening moreso demanding she acknowledge our daughters rights ,she was being ridiculous expecting me to just stop being her dad but mainly begging her to see the potential harm being done for self-serving interests etc
.Her responses were becoming more antagonizing to me as she was convinced herself I don't love daughter-never did/there was no bond there/never cared/no parenting skills our daughter never trust me & the ex had to force daughter to have anything to do with me.Now she's found strength to leave I've lost control hence why I'm only now trying to have relationship with daughter blah blah
.All spewing from same mouth that blasted me for pegging laundry wrong & of washing dishes in the wrong order coz I have so little idea on anything.Batship crazy I tell ya
.Anyway after a month of this I text her we accepted at FDR & my assessment was in 2 weeks time & she should hear from then soon regards hers.
3 days later she swears affidavit local court claiming DV.
I was served interim order July & up for trial early next month.
I got good backing evidence I feel but the field is so broad & she's continuing to do gd.job of "I'm scared for me and daughters safety,he's so unpredictable"
.Am up for multiple breaches due to itemizing each text sent begging her to stop alienating,think of our kid etc
.Meanwhile my initiated FC action(reluctantly) was up in Nov.& partly I feel from bad representation/advice the judge was left with no option I concede as I was alleged abuser she cautiously ordered 6 supervised visits with a report & after insisting to the muppet sent to rep me on the day got 2hr Xmas eve.supervised at & by my folks & sis.
On that ,the times were ordered 12-2.worked out my sis due to work couldn't get to folks til 3pm.Poor mum figured well all family together,bring lunch forward a day.when she asked ex how it was to work-would 12-4 be happening so as sis got see her niece more than pass in doorway & less rush for me poor mum with lunch.Ex told her to start cooking earlier ! & would get back to her on times but max.would be 2hrs.(hadn't seen daughter since July & ex had phone contact severed after I breached(too long an email)in October.She ended up dithering got no court ruling or such she rang mum week before & said SHE would allow 2-4pm.!!
Ah bless her !!
So Martino as I know she is Batship crazy & no interest of doing right by daughter & seeking her rights and wishes are prime(we had a ball Xmas eve. & our 1st sup.visit last week & she misses me terribly she repeatedly informed me)& bordering on turning crazy forced to research to defend this sh*t but mostly due to having shared 14hrs total time(5contacts)since mid July with my little princess whom I'm missing like I cant even get words to adequately describe.I simply ask hypothetical when that angle pops into my head due to my panicking fear of not checking a concern or not wanting to bother a forum risking a serve for not being PC enough & letting my girl down
@ jaazzz ive always read your posts as no-nonsense & insightful & I agree with your view & believe me this would've been mediated "in house " 6 month+ ago if my call
.As touched on whilst somewhat confidant of getting DV claim seen for what it is in local(breaches are beyond more than offering mitigating & begging leniency & simply unconcerning to me at present)
a mate asked why with all my evidence to defend & risking losing anyway as how can you prove her "fear" is bogus?Why can't I go use that evidence to show that if anyone was "abused" in the relationship & controlled/manipulated it was me.
.As stated I thought I'd ask a what if to appease that niggler at least.
Whilst I do appreciate the need for GENUINE DV orders ...Straight up this is far far removed from being one
.I refuse to abandon my daughter due to being above using the broken system to defend against that same broken system being maliciously used on myself and my daughter
whatplanetisthis 2014-01-17 08:14:55
cheers for that.AAGGHHH!!! i hate feeling so helpless.I can't even seem to get my head around how to present on the day.Hammer on about Sus timing of it,IE: her claims & my belief that its merely a ploy for FC leverage.Using her affidavit & go para. by para offering up evidence that counters each of her paragraphed claims.Start off with an oration of our entire history explaining we did have verbals,mutual name calling & in hindsight yes the behavior could be construed as within the new definition of DA.
Honestly I don't think there would be a couple any where in the world where past behavior wouldn't fall into the definition.As I said how do you defend against someones perceived fear of what may occur .
A nutter yes, but a cunning nutter at that.
It scares me that theoretically she is halfway home as in the pol.pross. & her convinced the mag.enough already for him to issue the interim order.She holds all the cards really and just has to stick with that unless my hand trumps hers so to speak.I am terrified of botching it by playing the wrong hand as I don't think my heart could cope with losing that battle to then be expected to front FC in April branded as a confirmed DA'r so forget about shared care.
It literally scares me beyond belief to think what my mindset will be if shafted into that position.
The pol.pross.returns from leave as of Monday.Am I allowed to request a meet with her & give her the whole history of us ,& attempt to show her that all is not what it seems.
Or can that be seen as manipulating behavior against the ex somehow?
Man I am so over this bul*sh*t !!!
I had an AVO taken against me. Within a few months I was seeing the two eldest kids 4 nights a fortnight and the youngest for a measly hour a week, that hurt. Within 18 months I had all three kids 4 nights a fortnight and 2 yrs on I have the kids 5 nights a fortnight and 1/2 the holidays. The nitty gritty of the legal system alludes me basically because it isn't a one size fits all system and the outcome of each case is dependant on a whole lota variables.
From my experience I can give you only one piece of advice JUST STAY CALM AND DO THE RIGHT THING. Hopefully all will fall into place after that.
I agree with eamon.... From my own experience, these AVO's are really not worth the stress most people apportion them. Concentrate your efforts & resources to the family court proceedings.
AVO's are becoming so common that they barely raise an eyebrow in FC proceedings anymore. Just make sure you don't lose your temper or get manipulated into doing something stupid..
I don't quite follow that idea.If the AVO is granted then Shared care becomes an unattainable option at later FC proceedings,doesn't it ? Also in the time I've been "banned from " contact with my daughter or having any involvement or say in major decisions affecting her,come FC time again-which is after 6 supervised visits & report because of said AVO(interim)-you've then got to fight uphill due to child being settled and apparantly coping well.
Not to mention that your child is spending huge chunk of time under the "care" of something so evil & morally lacking that they see no wrong in fabricating the entire thing anyway.That stresses me the most.I may not be in running for parent of year & prob. wont ever be but .............oh i dunno,I'll stop before I pen another epic.
Anyway the police pros.is back from leave today & as I have to self rep.I'm going to see her this arvo.with concerns.See what happens.
[QUOTE=whatplanetisthis] I don't quite follow that idea.If the AVO is granted then Shared care becomes an unattainable option at later FC proceedings,doesn't it ? [/QUOTE]
The fact that an interim AVO has already been issued means that the presumption in 61DA doesn't need to be applied. However, it doesn't automatically follow that equal shared PR is denied, or that shared care is not considered if it's practical & in the child's BI.
It appears from your posts that any allegations of FV involved your ex not your kids,, is that right?
Did your ex file a form 4 notice of child abuse with her application?
Hey Jaazzz,Yes I suppose your right as in the interim IO was in play when the Initiating App. first mention occurred back in Nov- hence my supervised visits.
It has been my belief all along that the local magistrate when presented with the correct & provable picture he will not rule to make full order & will revoke interim,resulting in me & ex being on level playing field on next visit to FC.
Its only fair.If someone's as big a douche as you claim,tell your side,back it up with some evidence in court & let justice be served.I have no problem with that & if I held the slightest doubt that my continued fathering of my daughter was based on corrupt declarations or knowing I had been a risk to or inflicted any sort of abuse or hurt her in any way shape or form I wouldn't still be here.I would've conceded I had f*cked up & was deserving of being cast out of her life.I'm aware they are just words to anyone else here as we are in a sense faceless screen names.To me & anyone else who knows me,no-brainer.Its what's been driving me mad as to getting all evidence together ,researching,assessments,sessions etc. is all so time consuming & mentally draining.Plus the fact my index finger ( the typist) is near twice as thick as my thumb now .If it's not bad enough to learn anothers truthful feelings towards you its sheer torture to be expected to sit & listen to supposed events & incidences that formed that persons opinion.Reading of a past moment realizing its been stripped,altered,role reversed & tweaked infuriates me.The airtime for a victim is crucial.We both recorded an event from years ago involving BSCX (here on in abbreviation of bat s*it crazy ex)in the kitchen,crouched on floor,holding a huge knife & me kicking her arm.Agreed facts.Where we differ is on the facts that it resulted from her being red handed caught hand in the cookie jar scenario & under the circumstances asked to leave & return to parents( yes I called her a name or two & with angry voice tones no doubt).That she was threatening suicide unless I recanted my statement & not being 100% positive it was a bluff I instinctively reacted when the moment presented to disarm her.
Maybe them crucial details were remembered by one of her other personalities.Who knows?Fact is its been made aware to the courts with "I cant remember how it started" & "I'm not too sure what happened immediately after that,but I had a big bruise on my arm"& is a bullet point on her fairytale list of sworn material.
Were the imbeciles in charge at time of legislation that convinced there didn't exist a "regular joe,morally decent,no frills,empathic,loving,caring parent...albeit p*ssywhipped" to the point of relinquishing the one basic yet important criteria that differentiates between a story told & a fact provable...that of evidence?
Oh,I've wandered again?
She's claimed daughter was witnessing abuse to BSCX.
Yes she filed that form 4 only leaving sexual assault/abuse unticked at question 2.
There's a thought,upon reading that form & consequences of ticking certain boxes & agencies being alerted.Are these other agencies enmeshed within over riding protocols so as to do away with good old unbiased investigation work or might they be in contact in near future for my response?
ok, firstly I'm a bloke and I'm kinda offended by bits of your post. There are women here who are very smart and JUST MIGHT choose not to give you advice.
Yep you've wandered again. Mate I think I've got some thoughts for you but am politely asking you keep to the nuts and bolts. Stuff like interim AVO final hearing in March OR WHAT EVER...
I will tell you how I played the game. Might work for you might not.... BTW I am in NSW. The reason I tell you this is because the rules regarding AVO's differ from state to state. BUT I believe the impact on family law is the same...
So I get called to the cop shop. Served with interim AVO. Kids are protected persons. I cant go near the house. First court appearance I ask for an adjournment. I'd already initiated mediation with UNIFAM and was asking for a chance to see that process through.
Second court appearance still no movement on mediation as ex refused. I asked my solicitor to talk to domestic violence liaison officer ( DVO - Great Woman). I have spoken to her since, but anyways... I think she got that this JUST MIGHT be an instance where the system was being abused. I asked my solicitor to discuss with DVO about me seeing kids. The roughest parenting plan was written up. BUT after about 8 weeks I was seeing the kids and that is all that mattered...
Now I realise that you are a little further into the game and maybe the advice is a bit late, but the short version is that I think you want to review your strategy. I think the best strategy for someone accused of violence is to accept the avo without admission. THEN DO NOTHING that could be perceived as breaching the AVO. Right now you are thinking I'm a mad hatter. BUT here is the thing, the money you spend on solicitors and the time you spend researching fretting chain smoking or what ever is wasted. Especially the money, keep the money for family law because that is your goal. Never lose sight of the goal which is as much time with your kid as possible RIGHT???
Now in family law there are a few things that the court must consider when factoring in child access arrangements. The history of family violence one is a bit of a problem for you at the moment BUT if you accept AVO without admission THEN your argument is that there wasn't violence and frankly I think the magistrates see that many family law cases with AVO's that it is tedious for them...
Now pay attention BECAUSE this is the big bit. One of the other things that family law look at is the capacity of the parents to effectively co-parent. So if your ex wants to keep you away from kid what she should do is cause conflict. Then she can rock up to court and say there is high levels of conflict in this case and it is not in kids best interest to be exposed to conflict..... So what does that mean you need to do????
I've gotta go but I'm keen to hear your answer...
whatplanetisthis, I have read your posts and the same theme emerges from them, that is you blame your ex for your behaviour (e.g. you breached the AVO because she stopped you seeing your daughter, you kicked her in the arm because she had a knife). .
Many of us think our ex's are crazy. Sometimes they are and sometimes it is out perspective of the situation. The bottom line is the only thing you can control is your reaction.
You are wasting your time defending yourself against this AVO if you are justifying your behaviour by blaming your ex. If you have engaged in behaviour which falls under the definition of DV (and you say you have) then do as Eamon suggested and accept the AVO without admissions. You'll get a lot further by drawing a line in the sand and moving forward rather than trying to "prove" it was your ex's fault. Many abusive people never take blame for their actions and justify what they do by blaming the victim. Don't fall into that trap it will leave you nowhere.
Do not waste any more time on the past. If you want to spend time with your child then the way forward is doing everything within your power to be amicable with you ex, and you do this because you love your child and your child's life is easier not having to deal with dad hating mum or mum hating dad. Be the bigger person here and suck it up when your ex does things to upset you. It gets easier the more you practise it. You just have to get to a place where you don't let it get to you. Ignore it and avoid contact with your ex. Focus on being the best dad you can for your child because that's all you have any control over.
No one "wins" in these situations. All you can do is minimise damage and stress to yourself and more importantly, your child.
I have to agree with Daisy & Eamon.. Given the circumstances, you should accept without admissions & concentrate your money & efforts on family court proceedings..
Fact is, family violence has occurred, & if the child saw or even heard it, the revised definitions of the act means the child has been exposed to FV...
That does not mean that the family court places any less value on the child maintaining a meaningful relationship with you that involves at least substantial & significant time...
If you are struggling with coping with the situation, I highly recommend you seek some counseling to teach you how to manage your emotions, & some coping skills... You need to be cool, patient, & not do anything stupid...
Alas,that's the downside of these forums.context,interpretation & ability to convey them correctly can sometimes suffer.
I am sorry if i offended anyone.
I guess it's one of those agree to disagree moments.
Whilst I sincerely appreciate peoples taking time to read & reply & also offer up their own experiences to gauge what move should be taken next,I can only tip my hat to you for having the ability to simply accept accusations made & move on.
Any time I have with my child,of course that is the "bigger picture".
The fact I am now "permitted" 2 hours per fortnight to stay connected whilst some strange lady hovers around within earshot the entire time seems a lifetime removed from sharing the family home with her for 5 years preceding.
I aknowledge I am not the first nor will I be the last to be in that boat.
Believe me, I have tried mustering all I have to "deal with It" & I have sourced professional help & will continue to do so.I also completed a parents after seperation workshop last week.
Perhaps my posts have come across condescending & my thoughts are jaded.Truth is I wrestle with the fact that had I just continued the status quo & not instigated the final argument I could have saved myself a worldful of personal angst.My daughter would still be in a household with two parents ,true, but risking long term damage to her due to the EQUALLY at fault role models.
Did i envisage this result? No,I certainly did not.For I didn't think for the life of me the ex would turn out to be so spiteful.
I made the call,so to speak.I simply have to continue reminding myself I did the right thing for my daughter & at the forefront of that is ,I believe,fighting for the truth to be told for starters.
What sort of example is that to set a child of simply rolling over & accepting any tripe that is told simply because the ex got the jump on DV claims.
Are you really going to tell me that someone "looping out" with a knife threatening suicide has a valid example of DV because the partner kicked her arm to disarm(no pun)her of it?
Wow! Try as i may I just can not accept that & if holding on to similar beliefs such as that deems me as undeserving of fatherhood & for not having the morals ajudged worthy of standing up for to set a good example to a child,then wow I have indeed got the whole thing wrong & should just simply dissapear.
Hi whatplanetisthis, when relationships end people can be mature and behave amicably towards each other for the sake of the children, OR they can drag up the past/reinvent the past/make accusations/be vengeful etc.
Many of the members here have ex partners who fall into that second category. The advice people have given you is based on their experience.
You have 2 choices-
1. spend time and energy trying to refute/explain each one of her allegations which is stressful and doesn't really gain much in the end
2. leave the past in the past and move forward so you can spend your energy/money/time trying to get to a place where you spend more time with your child.
If you accept the AVO without admissions you are not accepting that there is any truth in her allegations. You could negotiate to have the child removed from the order, or to include a clause so that you can contact your ex but only in regard to children.
With regard to parenting orders, the court will be more interested to know whether you are a risk to your child, and less interested in what happened between you and your ex in the past..
not legal advice (well not really) I accepted the terms of the avo without admission. Basically I agreed not to stalk intimidate or harass. No problems, I don't do those things anyways. But I saved thousands in legal fees in not wasting my time with the criminal law system and I spent that money in the family law system to get access to the kids AND that is always the goal.... I think I really understand the term taking one for the team. BUT the AVO was a blessing. It meant for 12 months I was not allowed to talk to HER. I wish I still had an avo on me so that I still didn't have to talk to her....