Printed From: AussieLegal
Category: Family Law, Defacto Law
Forum Name: Divorce, Consent Orders, Binding Financial Agreements
Printed Date: 17/July/2018 at 13:35
Topic: False allegations/Perjury
Posted By: Annie56
Subject: False allegations/Perjury
Date Posted: 06/November/2017 at 19:06
My son had the final hearing 2 weeks ago. We are both confused and unsure what is really going on. His daughter is 2 year old. His wife kicked him out without warning(phoned him to let him know that his belongings were outside the front door) when the baby was 4 months old. A woman with complex mental health issues (under psychiatric care) and obvious signs of personality disoreder (paranoid/narcissistic). My son got kicked out when he started to stand up to her when she refused to feed the child at night time (she did not want to have disrupted sleep, baby had to adjust to mum's needs). Long story. her verbal abuse was the main issue in the marriage. She denied it was abuse. When she realized (Google) that it was, she became worried. Guess what happened: she turned it all around and accused my son of being "violent" and dangerous for the child, hitting her (????) he never hit anyone.
She did not want him to have access to the child, because she was jelous: she did not want the child to love him and our family. She was aware that she did not have the capacity to emotionally bond with any human being. For months my son was not allowed to see his child.
My son got Legal aid. When the Mediation process started with phone interview she became anxious and refused to proceed saying she was "frightened" of my son ????My son started the court process, in the mean time she filed the first Affidavit, to gain upper hand. It was full of totally false allegations, claiming that my son is mentally ill and has a police record. She claimed she was in good health. She requested full custody, full decision making right and supervised contact through Berry Street (it takes months before you can access the service and very limited access)
At the first hearing my son was given immediate access twice a week 3 hours under my supervision. 3 months later we had the second hearing when both parties had to provide evidence on their health status and medication they were taking.
The mother has strong "connections" in the family court. That person actually stood next to the mother at the second hearing, which caused a change in judge's attitude towards my son.
My son went through very complex assessments, Family assessment as well, children lawyer was appointed too. He came through all assessments "glowing", the family report pointed out HER as a source of risk (her negative attitude) that could de-stabilize the child.
At the third and 4th hearing the ex wife filed pages of non substantiated series of false allegations attacking my son's personality and filled with "I believe..." statements and denigratory comments and accusation ignoring the contrary EVIDENCE. Keeps saying the same things over and over again. Not sure how can documents like this actually go through a lawyer's hand?a week before the final hearing my son was told that his barrister was unable to attend the final hearing and a new barrister was "debriefed" and appointed.
8PM before the final hearing an E-mail from the lawyer: the independent children lawyer filed her Affidavit completely supporting my son's Affidavit. Good news. Than: the next barrister could not attend either, an other barrister will attend who was not de-briefed, we should be at the court 1 hour early to talk to that barrister. That new barrister had same family issues, arrived late, so no time for debrief by the lawyer or to talk to us, she did not have time to lo0ok at the documents.
Next surprise: the children lawyer got suddenly allocated to an other case overnight, we got a completely new children laywer who changes the "original" ICL's request...there was a big rushing to sign an agreement outside the court room...half of the suggestions we had no time or opportunity to understand...we just had to sign...something is really wrong but not sure what to do, where to go, it seems that the system is truly corrupted, a story for Current Affairs...
Is there any way of making somebody responsible for false allegations that misled the court
causing serious damages to the other parent also the child? We have witnessed abuse of this child by both the morther and grandmother, but the lawyer said we had no evidence so we could not say anything. Yet she filed pages of Affidavits filled with lies...the child is with a sick mother and even more sick grandmother and uncle...but they have a lot of money(and they are cheating the Tax system too) and strong connections so they can buy justice...at the same time the child seems to be relaxing when with us...
Posted By: Sonata
Date Posted: 07/November/2017 at 07:38
If your only question is about what kind of vindication is available for rubbish affidavits, the answer is none.
What is this document your son signed in a rush?
Posted By: Annie56
Date Posted: 07/November/2017 at 10:41
Thank you for response. It means that mentally ill people can file false allegations, mislead the court without any consequences, delay court processes and prevent the other parent from spending fair time with the child who adores that parent (who is the more stable one anyway) without consequences? Even despite professional evidence that is unsupportive of allegations?
My son was pushed to make agreement outside the court room, which includes agreeing to have less time with the child than the Family report and the ICL suggested . He had to agree to go back and try mediation (the ex wife avoided every mediation) in 18 months time and go back to court if unsuccessful. Despite the Family Report pointing out that the child is at risk under her mother's care, and 50-50 was suggested when she turns 4. The mother fought against starting overnight stays saying that the child wouldn't cope with that yet. Interestingly enough, she had 2 overnight stays already, both went very smoothly as if she always lived here. She has been sleeping peacefully at our place last 12 months anyway. Anyway, we are waiting now for official court order to be sent to my son. It seems we have to accept what is and hope that the justice will be done eventually through "Karma" without us doing anything else but remain positive and focusing on the child.
Posted By: Annie56
Date Posted: 07/November/2017 at 11:11
It also seems reasonable to get a lawyer from Armstrongs Legal who would represent my son.
Posted By: rannii
Date Posted: 07/November/2017 at 21:42
So you son agreed to "consent orders"? So it means he was happy with the orders proposed.
If he was not happy, he should have continued with the court action.
Now the so called evidence of the affidavits is not tested until the court case. So "yes" it can all be misleading until it tested in court. But your son opted to not to have the evidence tested.
FYI, we went to trial & the judge had not read any of the material. Looking back, I don't blame him - a far bit of the "evidence" was struck out before he needed to consider it.
The family court writer can only make recommendation based on "balance of probabilities" - so stereotypes. If you think the recommendations is wrong, then you challenge it in court.
Now that you son has agreed to orders, it's hard to amend them. However from the sounds of it he has the capabilities to head back in 18 months. That's a saviour. (FYI, my orders were finalised when child was 2, and goes until child turns 18).
Best thing you son can do is take his time with the child, as she the mother he is happy to assist (and have more time) wherever he can and not to put undue pressure on the mother.
Posted By: Annie56
Date Posted: 08/November/2017 at 12:18
Thank you Ranii so much for taking your time to talk to me. It has made a huge positive difference for us.
Yes, my son agreed to consent orders simply because he was put under pressure, and we had no idea what else he could have done. Half of it he was not even able to read/understand, he was asked to sign it quickly before the judge's last case finished.We have never been at the court before, and we thought the lawyers are the experts they knew what they were doing and we needed to listen to them no matter what. Even though it was weird that we got a completely new barrister that morning who was not de-briefed (bless her heart, she did her best though) and had no time to read any documents. Also, a completely new ICL appeared who was not de-briefed either and had no idea what was happening last few months. It looked like a rather huge mess...
Lessons learned, I am glad there will be "next time" in 18 months, we will go with more wisdom. Getting an order for 16 years is far worse though, you are right.
I do not blame the judge though, in fact, from day 1 I learned to like him (also did my son): a soft spoken man, appears very insightful, calm, intuitive, rational, caring and empathetic. It appeared that he could see through the lies of the mother, but at the court there is no room for intuition, it is all about evidence. Is there any probability that we get the same judge in 18 months time?
My grief is mainly about the manipulation of evidence by the lawyers. Not sure how that happened. My son has never been violent in any form, never assaulted anybody, has a clear police record (Federal level), never stalked his ex or harassed her in any way, regardless on the evil behavior (mental abuse) and cruel provocations. He endured everything for the sake of his little girl. Than she manages to significantly cut his visitation time by simply filing pages of totally false, horrible allegations. This went on for first hearing till the last.
I researched about the law , and I understand that writing false allegations at the court is a criminal offense. She even wrote in her Affidavit that I choose to ignore that my son is a "violent man with record", so I am protecting him??? The federal police check proved her wrong, it IS a clear evidence against her allegation. I will take her to the civil court for this, so will my son for several other false allegations.
What you are suggesting is exactly what we have been doing last 2 years: we take our time with the child (I adore her too), and try to be creative within the given time frame. She is responding extremely well, as if we have always been her family.
I am helping my son to deal with his grief constructively (he still keeps asking the same questions:" how can she do this to me and our daughter? This is not a human person!How could I made such a huge mistake having a child with her?What have I done wrong to deserve this suffering") and protecting him from further harm (minimize his contact with his ex), so he could continue to be a loving dad to his baby and take his time to recover.
My son has never put any pressure on the mother, the mother keeps putting pressure on us and the child unfortunately. She is seriously unwell mentally and definitely has a personality disorder. The court is aware of this, I believe, and they are doing the best they can.
The barristers said several times that they felt sorry for the child being stuck with that mother and grandmother. The barrister told us at the very first hearing that we are dealing with a "VERY DIFFICULT" woman, and she felt a high respect for us for putting up with so much for the sake of the child's welfare. At the same time it is disappointing that the law allows this woman who has so much power over this young child and who inflicted already so much psychological damage on the child, to continue damaging her. Is there any way of advocating for Family Law reform? To advocate for the real interest of these young children? To stop the damage done to these young generations? Sometimes the babies need to be protected from their mothers!
I hope my son's and our family's love will be able to save this girl from developing serious mental illness when she grows up. This baby has gone through a lot of trauma under her mother's care at such an early age. And the law is still allowing that abuse to continue. This is how our society creates generations of mentally unstable people.
Despite feeling the injustice, we try to remain positive and hope that, as always, the truth will prevail eventually when the time is right. The needed evidence will be available when it has to be.This is the trial of faith (our spiritual orientation pulls us through), hope and love for my son and our family.
I hope that we can get some more useful advise from others too who were in a similar position. Any really great lawyers that somebody knows about?
Thank you in advance for listening and taking time for responding.
Posted By: Annie56
Date Posted: 08/November/2017 at 12:35
Now I understand that our ignorance and blind trust in the lawyer resulted in this outcome. We should have gone to the court to test the evidence. We did not know that. We were overwhelmed (and exhausted) by all the trauma and stress around this situation, we had no energy and time to put more research into it, so we chose to trust the "experts" and do what they told us to do. Our mistake, no one else's. Grateful to the judge though for suggesting a new trial in 18 months time.
Thanks again Ranii for your great help, your input has been a wake up call and gave us a much needed direction. I can see how lucky we were having this judge in our "team"...bless him!
Posted By: rannii
Date Posted: 09/November/2017 at 08:03
A lot of what you have written I could imagine my ex MIL was writing.
Remember life is a point of view and different people can look at things in a different light.
For the longest time I didn't see my ex's ways as domenstic violence - his over protective, telling me what I can/can't eat, where I can/can't go etc I saw as "looking after me". He parents see nothing - as that's their culture. On a daily basis he threatened to take my
Child away if I didn't do as he wanted.
I can see things now from both sides. How he could have told his "truth" to others and what they would have seen to think me "crazy" and him perfect. In reality, our values are so vastly different that we could never be suited. He would be perfectly suited to a submissive, compliant woman who put him on a pedastood. I needed someone who treated me as an equal, with a valid opinion.
My point is, you can never know the intimacies of their relationship. I doubt your son is as blameless as you believe, but also may not be as bad as you think the mother makes him out to be.
Going to court over "lies in affidavit" would not be the best thing to do.
1. Our work allows us to have an opinion. Our opinions cannot be wrong - just wrongly founded. You said her affidavit was always "I believe", There probably also is a disclaimer at the end that this is "to the best of my knowledge" or something like that.
2. The action could have a negative impact on future time with the child. The mother could claim to be pressurised (sounds like she already is) further and it is what is effecting her ability to parent - therefore it is not in the best interest of the child to have a relationship with both parents.
3: the info was actually given in court - you didn't make it to trial. She can always claim
She found out the info was incorrect and was going to retract it at trial.
Think about it. She's already saying she feels controlled by the family and pressured to
Not do anything wrong. "Hey you honour, an example of this is they won't let me have my own opinion, they took me to court, putting pressure on me to ensure my opinion is null and
Look, I can be scared of spiders. It is a legitimate fear and not one that can really be explained. You might not be. Who is in the right here?
I'm petrified of coming into contact with my ex. I've severe PTSD, I cant move, can't breathe, etc. when I was with him he had such a mental hold on my, he made me crazy. He would say with such conviction that things that happened, didn't and vise versa. I had no grounding in reality. Away from him, I've returned to being a fully functional person who can hold
Down a professional job, raise 2 amazing kids etc. am I in the wrong because my actual fear is his presence might make me return to that space where I was unable to function? (FYI, I've suggested family counselling and our court orders state it needs to happen, yet he refuses, so be able to overcome this).
The best advise, forget about creating any conflict. Enjoy the current orders to the best of
Your abilities. Be nothing but helpful and nice and accomodating. Kids are smart. My 4 year old already has it figured out.
Next time the child is in front of a family report lawyer, reality will play a big factor.
Posted By: emca01
Date Posted: 09/November/2017 at 11:38
I got lost... can you summarise?
kid is 2? how much time is dad having?
Judge has ordered it return to court in 18 months?
Look I think you're on a win... With a 2yr old you're not likely to get 50/50... Maybe 3 or 4 a fortnight.. at best... ICL has recommended 50/50 from the time the kid is 4 and has ordered court just prior to child turning 4... These guys are smart... put 2 and 2 together...
So you guys just have to play nice, minimise conflict and in 2 yrs I reckon you'll be having close to 50/50 as per ICL and family report recommendations
Posted By: Annie56
Date Posted: 10/November/2017 at 11:44
Thank you for your responses. Much appreciated, thought provoking and helpful. I can understand now why it is so hard for a man to defend himself against false allegations.
It seems if it’s the mother making the abuse allegations it is hard for the father. Mothers can make all sorts of unfounded claims about their ex, they can abuse their kids – and they are excused. A man is guilty until he proves otherwise. To prove otherwise is nearly impossible.
The court is quick to believe the accusations of the highly emotional mother based on little to no evidence, which affects the visitation time dad gets. Not only the father gets traumatized and deprived but the child too.
At the same time a man is legally prevented from having an “opinion” or “observation” that is not backed by evidence. This is what frustrates me.
Even though false allegations are simply driven by anger and rage , women win as the system protects women. Obviously, many women do need protection but unfortunately, this creates a situation where the whole system turns against men (minority perhaps) who are innocent. No wonder increasingly more young men commit suicide as they feel totally helpless and stripped off from their basic human rights and dignity.
The system creates a fatherless society if things do not change. Again, I understand why this is happening : to protect vulnerable women and children from violent men, but at the same time this leaves the system open to abuse.
It is fact that the false allegations are made by controlling, abusive people – men and women. They become resistant, hostile and passive-aggressive upon cross-examination of their claims. They try to discredit any professional who questions their assertions.
The man is expected to deal with false allegations calmly which is nearly impossible to do. A person who is falsely accused, especially by the wife he loved and has a child with, is terribly traumatized by hearing those horrible lies, reacts instinctively and is usually upset - but he has to remain calm and dignified???
I understand now why going to the civil court will not be wise at this stage. Thank you again for support. My son only wants to co-parent this beautiful child in a tension free, friendly co-parenting relationship. The court ordered counseling, but she avoided every counseling, every mediation attempt, ignored the order to complete after divorce parenting classes (my son completed that too).
It is very hard to remain calm and dignified, but it is uplifting knowing that things could have ended much worse.
I believe, the child’s age should not be a main factor in decision made about visitation time: every child is different, the bond with each parent/grandparent is more important. I cannot change the law though.
It seems we have to just accept what we cannot change and keep working creatively with the cards we have in hands– just as we have done this far. Looking back, the little time we had with my granddaughter we used constructively, and all the positive efforts are now starting to pay off. As you said: by the time the child is 4, she will have a good idea, and the family assessment will be more realistic. I can see that happing. You are right. We must keep going with positive attitude and love and hope that the truth will prove itself . I am so grateful I found this forum.
Even though I see and feel the injustice, it is easier to keep quiet and let it be.
And yes, all these months we were accommodating, compromising, tolerant, tried to play nice despite increasingly harder circumstances. It has been an enormous family effort. Divorcing people should respect each other and be kind to each other for the sake of the children and their own mental wellbeing. If the marriage did not work out for any reason, no point looking for the one to blame - it is over and focus needs to be on moving forward.
Thanks for listening and support!
Posted By: emca01
Date Posted: 10/November/2017 at 13:18
How mUchiha time with child atmosphere.
It might seem she can throw mud but none if it has stuck. The main reason it is not 50/50 is the age of the children and that is in keeping with the norm for this stuff