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Defamatory Statement made online
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upset1 View Drop Down
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Posts: 13 		  Quote upset1 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Topic: Defamatory Statement made online
    Posted: 29/July/2009 at 17:41
A question?

There are defamatory statments made against me on an Australian run forum. They have my name in full - as far as can be seen there are two people with same name present on the WWW, both in our professional capacities. I have suffered at the hands of this person for many years, not just on the web. There is ongoing police investigations here in the UK. Ususally I can persuade the webmaster to remove these rants, but not this one. The webmaster of this one tells me there is nothing illegal. It is an open website and has various feeds so it can be accessed via google etc. The webmaster uses as his avatar a picture of a woman on the ground appearing to be punched by a man with a caption To show her you mean it.

Is the law so very different in Australia?

I do not have the money to get private legal advice.

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MartinO View Drop Down
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Posts: 4014 		  Quote MartinO Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 29/July/2009 at 18:25
No, however there are some Australian sites where the server is located in the USA, and webmasters refuse to make the requested deletions citing the US freedom of speech laws. Often they misinterpret these laws because although there is freedom of speech there is not freedom from the consequences of that speech.

Are you able to determine where the server is located? This may help determine which laws are applicable.

If not I could assist you but will need to know the domain name of the site to do this.
I am NOT a lawyer. Anything said is NOT legal advice.

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upset1 View Drop Down
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Posts: 13 		  Quote upset1 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 29/July/2009 at 19:05
ventyouranger.org

Any help greatly appreciated

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MartinO View Drop Down
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Posts: 4014 		  Quote MartinO Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 29/July/2009 at 19:34
That server is located in Brazil the contact for the ISP for the service is gestaoip@telefonica.com.br

Not sure how you are going to complain to them it might take a threatening letter from a solicitor to do the trick. I think the best you can hope for is to get the offending page taken down.
I am NOT a lawyer. Anything said is NOT legal advice.

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upset1 View Drop Down
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Posts: 13 		  Quote upset1 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 29/July/2009 at 19:38
Thank you - not sure that I would ever have found it - but surely the people who run the forums have a duty not to allow anthing defamatory to appear on their forum? Certainly is in law here in the UK, and the chap who owns the site is an Australian citizen with an Australian address.

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MartinO View Drop Down
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Posts: 4014 		  Quote MartinO Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 29/July/2009 at 19:47
Yes you are correct, a court case here in Australia found that the law applicable was the law of the country where the offence occurred rather than the law of the country where the server was located or where the poster was located.

If you are in the UK and believe that what has been said has defamed you there, it is the requirements of British laws that would have to be met to prove defamation. However that would only apply if British courts apply the same standards as the recent Australian case.

Proving all this will be lengthy and expensive.

A complaint of legal action to the ISP for the server, if strong enough, likely get the whole service taken down.
I am NOT a lawyer. Anything said is NOT legal advice.

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upset1 View Drop Down
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Posts: 13 		  Quote upset1 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 29/July/2009 at 20:01
Thanks - will be sending appropriate email later today.

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upset1 View Drop Down
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Posts: 13 		  Quote upset1 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 30/July/2009 at 18:52
"Error delivering to gestaoip; Router: Database disk quota exceeded"

Suprise, suprise doenst read his emails or gets huge amounts of spam.

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MartinO View Drop Down
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Posts: 4014 		  Quote MartinO Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 30/July/2009 at 19:34
OK, I've done my search again and got a different result, I suspect a typo on my part with the previous search, sorry. My original suspicion was correct, that is the server is in the USA.

Site: ventyouranger.org
IP Information for 208.100.55.120

Details for the ISP:
OrgName:    NoZone, Inc.
OrgID:      NOZON
Address:    350 E. Cermak Rd.
Address:    Suite 240
City:       Chicago
StateProv: IL
PostalCode: 60616
Country:    US

Comment:    Please submit all reports of abuse to
Comment:    abuse@steadfast.net
I am NOT a lawyer. Anything said is NOT legal advice.

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upset1 View Drop Down
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Posts: 13 		  Quote upset1 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 30/July/2009 at 19:48
OK the Brazilians are going to love me, as I found lots of other email addresses and sent request to.

Now have sent it to NoZone so lets see what happens

Your a star Martin - thanks so much for your help - wish our Police would be as quick.

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upset1 View Drop Down
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Posts: 13 		  Quote upset1 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 30/July/2009 at 21:47
You are correct, internet stalking, harrassment, defamation and threats to kill are considered freedom of speech - I have been told they are categorically not a criminal offence in the USA - now thinking of other ways and means. Starting to feel even more frustrated - the first time that I have not been able to persuade people to remove such a diatribe naming me - I would never have known about it if she had vented without naming me.

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MartinO View Drop Down
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Posts: 4014 		  Quote MartinO Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 30/July/2009 at 21:53
How did she get your real name?
I am NOT a lawyer. Anything said is NOT legal advice.

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upset1 View Drop Down
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Posts: 13 		  Quote upset1 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 30/July/2009 at 22:11
she is my sister - its been going on for over 15 years - normally it can all be removed quickly (Facebook, Hotmail, Virgin Media have all banned her from their services) - she is currently under official police caution not to do anything like this, and as she broke the caution all the papers have now gone to the CPS and I am awaiting a decision to see if they will prosecute.

She has threatened to kill me, she telephones my work and leaves messages on the answer phone, she cant get to me via email as she has all her email adresses barred, as soon as we become aware of a new adddress it goes on the block list. At the moment she is signing me up to all sorts of websites, but again thats easy to deal with. I seem to be constantly firefighting in order to keep my good name.

Its a nightmare as it impacts on our businesses(we are international import and export and spext consultants with a good name), and short of giving up working, going on the dole, changing our names and moving it seems there is little we can do. I will not allow her to drive us to that. Sorry feeling a bit miffed at the moment.

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upset1 View Drop Down
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Posts: 13 		  Quote upset1 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 30/July/2009 at 22:16
I have just been told by NoZone to go and register and engage in an argument on the forum. They require an US Court Order to remove the threads, nothing else will wash

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MartinO View Drop Down
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Posts: 4014 		  Quote MartinO Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 31/July/2009 at 11:21
See solicitor, engaging with the people on the site will only bring out more defamatory stuff. The solicitor may have more pull and can initiate any action necessary to get the US court order.

Threatening to kill a person is a criminal offence here so you should take action, obviously the official caution is not sufficient, she needs to be locked up.
I am NOT a lawyer. Anything said is NOT legal advice.

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MartinO View Drop Down
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Posts: 4014 		  Quote MartinO Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 31/July/2009 at 12:02
Another approach: The owner of the site has made a recent post here about how expensive it is running the site and asking for donations.

Perhaps if you contacted PayPal and advised them of your concerns they might pull the plug and cut off his source of money.

Then you could up the ante by starting an action which will cost him money to defend.
I am NOT a lawyer. Anything said is NOT legal advice.

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upset1 View Drop Down
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Posts: 13 		  Quote upset1 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 31/July/2009 at 17:52
I am not sure that I can fund international legal case - we are trying hard to survive the recession. But I may try the paypal approach - you never know.

I would never consider engaging online with this person, my case against her would become null and void if I did that.

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Posts: 616 		  Quote TechSpec Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02/August/2009 at 12:23
Hard case, but surely you don't live on the internet..?
People seem to confuse the real world with the virtual. It's like when a crap TV show comes on that we don't like or take offence to, so what do we do about it - we change the channel and find something else to watch!

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upset1 View Drop Down
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Posts: 13 		  Quote upset1 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04/August/2009 at 00:18
No I dont live on the internet - but people who buy from us and engage us for consultancy work do check the internet for information about us, and both myself and my business partner have "original" names, and websites forums with feeds (RSS etc) are a damn nuisance in letting this sort of thing go everywhere. Reputation is everything in the places we work, and its hard enough getting work at the moment without having my name defamed.

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Posts: 616 		  Quote TechSpec Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04/August/2009 at 08:29
Do you really think that people look at that sort of website for a reference? I think you may be a bit paranoid, but however if you really want to do something about this you could start with these details:

Domain ID: D137029251-LROR
Domain Name: VENTYOURANGER.ORG
Created On: 11-Jan-2007 08: 01: 54 UTC
Last Updated On: 19-Feb-2009 23: 25: 54 UTC
Expiration Date: 11-Jan-2010 08: 01: 54 UTC
Sponsoring Registrar: Dynadot, LLC (R1266-LROR)
Status: CLIENT TRANSFER PROHIBITED
Registrant ID: C-13052
Registrant Name: John Scott
Registrant Street1: PO Box 819
Registrant City: Balcatta
Registrant State/Province: WA
Registrant Postal Code: 6914
Registrant Country: AU
Registrant Phone: +61.402290675
Registrant Email: evilgoat@goats.org.au
Admin ID: C-13052
Admin Name: John Scott
Admin Street1: PO Box 819
Admin City: Balcatta
Admin State/Province: WA
Admin Postal Code: 6914
Admin Country: AU
Admin Phone: +61.402290675
Admin Email: evilgoat@goats.org.au
Tech ID: C-13052
Tech Name: John Scott
Tech Street1: PO Box 819
Tech City: Balcatta
Tech State/Province: WA
Tech Postal Code: 6914
Tech Country: AU
Tech Phone: +61.402290675
Tech Email: evilgoat@goats.org.au
Name Server: NS0.XNAME.ORG
Name Server: NS1.XNAME.ORG
Name Server: NS1.VENTYOURANGER.ORG
Name Server: NS2.VENTYOURANGER.ORG
Name Server: NS3.VENTYOURANGER.ORG

Now go take out a restraining order on the guy!

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