Joined: 11/September/2009
Location: Australia
Posts: 4
Posted: 11/September/2009 at 11:02
We are a small company in Melbourne who have been fighting Clear Telecoms, Fuzion, Quikfund 3Call for in excess of 15 months through Consumer Affairs and TIO without any success. These companies are total rip off merchants who lie through their teeth and somehow get away with it.
28/05/08 Meeting with – Sales Manager – 3 Call
During this meeting we were told:
Total Cost would be $200.00 per months plus GST of $20.00 – Total amount $220.00
3Call would take over the phone lines and pay out the account for our current provider Commander. We rang Commander in the presence of Mr. Cannestra and we were given the figure of $819.00 from a Van which he stated included GST.
We were told that all local calls would be 0.05cents and would be untimed.
We were told that the $220.00 plus GST would give us $200.00 worth of calls each month and this amount had to be taken from a Credit Card by direct debit.
We were told that the only other charges would be if we made more than the $200.00 in calls and that any excess calls would be billed separately.
We had a list of questions and information which we had asked previous Telco companies:
We currently average $502.42 per month for both landlines and mobiles will changing to you company work out cheaper?
Our current line rental is $34.50 per month x 4 lines = $138.00 plus calls – We were told we would only pay the $200.00 plus GST - there was never any mention of any other charges.
Current committed spend for the 4 mobiles calls is $158.18 per month – This was not applicable as we were only looking at the Land Lines.
If we changed over to your company:
Does this include:
1. Local calls at 0.05c per call – unlimited time? Yes
2. Free calls between nominated mobile numbers for no less than 10 minutes? N/A
3. Free deposit and pickup of messages from message bank? N/A
4. How often are we able to change/upgrade our mobiles? N/a
5. Are we able to pay by cheque each month? Yes – but all you will pay for is extra calls over the $200.00
6. What is the rate for the mobiles – currently we are paying 0.26 per minute with no connection fee? N/A
7. If there is any problem with our equipment do we have to foot the bill? No
So as you can see from this we were told by the Sales Manager, from 3 Call that we would be paying 5 cents per local call - that we would be charged $200.00 per month plus GST Rental (this amount would come from a nominated bank account automatically) and we would receive $200.00 in credits for calls made - at no time was there any mention of any other costing regarding equipment etc. We were told that the land line rentals would be cheaper than Telstra and were given to understand that the $200.00 plus GST taken out of our account would cover these plus some call costs.
They would pay out our current contract with Commander. In order to achieve this we had to sign a contract for 5 years. Due to the fact that our calls were small in nature we were told would not be able to receive any plasma type equipment but the 5 years of the contract would pay for the telephone installations and all set up costs. We were informed that there is no money to be made on phone systems but on the calls themselves for them. When asked how he could do this so cheaply the Sales Manager stated "I am the Sales Manager and the buck stops with me".
At the end of this meeting we were given 3 pages to sign - : We were told that these forms were as to what had been explained to us during the meeting. These forms were all signed on behalf of the business as we were informed that we receive a copy of the contract and there is always a cooling off period. The list of forms below are what purports to have been signed by the business as we were given a number of areas on forms where we needed to sign by the Sales Manager.
The only form that was returned to us on the day 28 May 2008 was the order number form 1967. We wre informed that the other forms signed were internal work order for the phone system to be installed and an credit application and account direct debit form. Until this claim has been made we have never sighted any contract of terms and when given same only after this complaint was made we would never have signed the contract as it was more than we were paying with Commander.
Order No: 1967 for the agreement to pay $200.00 plus GST per month.
Application for Clear Telecoms Communication Telephone Service.
Bundled Rate Card.
Rental Schedule.
Direct Debit Request.
The Sales Manager told us we would be given a copy of all forms signed on the date at the end of the meeting – which never happened and had he done so we would never have gone ahead with this arrangement. The contract we were told would be sent to us very soon and that somebody else would speak to us in the near future to have the installation of the phones. It was within 1 or 2 days that we were informed that the telephone phones and installation would take place on the following 2nd June 2008.
05/06/08 Email to the Sales Manager asking him to please respond to phone calls made prior to this date.
12/06/08 We emailed out banking details to a person from Fusion email address vicfinance@fusion.org.au so as the $220.00 per month could be taken out. We found out later that it was not Fuzion but a company called Quikfund that was taking the money out.
12/07/08 (approx) Our first account arrived totalling $435.50 charging us 12 cents per local call, $356.55 for Service and Equipment (plus the $220 taken out of the nominated bank account).
When we received the account from Clear Telecom we rang them and queried it - as to why they were billing us and not 3 call who we had signed with and also to the call charges - said they would ring back - never did.
The argument commenced there and we now have a bill which we have not paid of $4259.00 over and above the $220.00 per month which we have been paying as we were advised to do by the TIO during the period of the dispute. The TIO have now stated that we can break out contract with Clear Telecoms for nothing AFTER we pay them the excess monues and with Quikfun if we pay them out somewhere in the vicinity of $13000.00. We are at a stage now of not knowing where to go next - any advice would be appreciated.
Joined: 17/August/2009
Location: Australia
Posts: 7
Posted: 07/September/2009 at 09:26
Just thought you all may wish to register a complaint with ACCC. They have a case going involving Axis telecommunications bundled package. I made an appointment with my local Police Investigations Manager in an effort to have Tom Ford (Fresh telecoms) charged with fraud. The detective I met with called the ACCC and he spoke to Marcus Bezzi of the ACCC GPO Box 3131 CANBERRA ACT 2601. They advised the Police that although they new of Fresh Telecoms they did not have any written complaints. I know that many of us did register our details with the ACCC but will now put another complaint in and you all should do the same. Am waiting to here back from the Police regarding the fraud charge. I have also written a letter to the Minister the Hon Stephen Conroy regarding these scams.
Hi,
We are in the federal court with EFS. Clear are shareholders in the company. You might be tied in with them. Surely there is a case for a breach against trade practice for the association between these parties.
Contact us 0409 491111.
Have solicitors in place come and join us. Have established a fighting fund to soften costs.
Dear Fellow Victims Of Telecommunications Bundled Packages,
In July 2008 I became a victim of a company called FRESH TELECOMS that went belly up like the others. I became part of a group that engaged a law firm to fight this case 1 year ago. The law firm pressured us to settle the outrageous offers with Macquarie Bank (Macquarie Equipment Rentals) for a lousy 33% discount off our payout figure, then at a 50% discount. VERY UNHAPPY with these settlement offers and the LAW FIRM, a group of us sought advice from Mark Dight of Doyle Wilson Solicitors and he took over our cases around March 2009. Mark found that S.73 of the Trade Practices Act fit our circumstances (as the scams are much the same) and it would also give us an opportunity if we win to put us back in the financial position were in prior to signing those contracts. Macquarie had pursued many of us in the Local Court as we had ceased our payments, & S.73 does not apply in the Local Court so Mark made an application to the FEDERAL COURT using one test case for the Federal Court to rule in our favour and grant a motion to hear S.73 in the Federal Court. Macquarie would have preferred to hear the matters in the Local Court of course and strenuously opposed our application. We also had representation of Senior Counsel from Brisbane Mr Richard Liley SC with Mark Dight and on the 3 August 2009 OUR MOTION WAS GRANTED. We have since transferred that case to the Federal Court and are in the process of transferring each of our other matters to the Federal Court and are looking at running one or a number of test cases to trial.
Mark is also looking at doing the same for our other members financed by Tech Leasing & Capital. Our group members cover four states, NSW, SA, VIC & QLD and we understand there were over 700 small business affected with the collapse of Fresh Telecoms. We are very happy with his efforts since March 09 & are now moving forward putting the previous year behind us. If you are interested & would like to have an opportunity to regain moneys paid to these financiers, may I suggest you email me your contact names & phone numbers. The more numbers in one group the more power we will have over the finance companies and with a large group it will reduce all our costs. Whichever telecommunications company you were with the scams have similar links and you are welcome to join us. It may even be possible for the lawyers to work together in co-operation and reduce all our costs. I know our firm would be happy to communicate with other law firms involved in similar circumstances.
ERIN B.
Very good news.
That is what I have been saying for ages, to win, it has to be in the Federal Court so that fraud, etc can be brought into the equation and we can countersue for damages.
This may be the first case to get to the Federal Court, and may become a test case and precident for everyone else.
Ray McGrath is working on a case as well against EFS and I think it is also going to be in the Federal Court, but it won't get there until next year - if it gets that far.
Fresh Telecoms seem to be more predominent in Qld, although there are a few others on here that are also with them.
Please make sure you keep everyone updated.
I have found that the Finance Companies talk tough to get the easy targets to keep paying each month, but once they are up against an aggressive solicitor they back right off.
Macquarie are one of the more aggressive Finance Companies out there, so if you are with them and stop paying, make sure you have one of these solicitors on board to fight for you.
Cheers
Greg
Hi All
We are in the federal court Sydney, next month against EFS and would like anybody in trouble to contact me. We have a strong case and the solicotors are now well versed in the matters to hand.
Help is out there and these barstards need to be beaten.
Have been a victim of the bundled Telco supplier Emerald Communications who unknowing to ourselves set us up in a finance package. Our debt was $28K and our costs are estimated at $45K.
We have a listed date in the Federal court Sydney in October 09. We have not found any cases that have run that might assist us. At the moment we 3 other victims and we are contributing to the law firm Osullivan and Saddington. We feel our case is strong as we were a small business that kept paperwork and emails.
We are looking for any help names of any one that might be able to assist.
Also if there are any body that you know that wants to get Legal representation it is available and the solictiors are looking for up to $5K into a fighting fund. One of the key advantages we have is a salesrep who has turned on the Financier.
The financier is EFS or Enterprise Finance Solutions.
I can be contacted at any time on 0409 491111 or by email george@printicnsw.com.au
Joined: 17/August/2009
Location: Australia
Posts: 7
Posted: 18/August/2009 at 22:45
Thunder,
Will keep everyone posted. We are also in the process of writing to the Minister for Broadband, Communications and the Digital Economy, Senator the Hon Stephen Conroy. We need the government to step up to the plate and stop these companies and the financiers involved as it appears the same financiers backing them over and over again. There appears to be so many out there, some have already gone belly up and the others are on the way to doing same. Perhaps the government will take some notice if many more emails/letters are received.
If you have ceased your payments to the financiers you do need to get a result or you will be in default of your contract then the finance company can come in and take goods you own to the value of the contract.
Am keen to get the lawyers involved with all our situations liaising with each other and working together. What a wealth of knowledge and experience they could share with each other in one large effort to assist all the victims of these scams. A team effort would be AWESOME to be a part of !!!
Joined: 27/November/2008
Location: Australia
Posts: 20
Posted: 18/August/2009 at 18:42
Originally posted by ERIN B.
Dear Fellow Victims Of Telecommunications Bundled Packages,
In July 2008 I became a victim of a company called FRESH TELECOMS that went belly up like the others. I became part of a group that engaged a law firm to fight this case 1 year ago. The law firm pressured us to settle the outrageous offers with Macquarie Bank (Macquarie Equipment Rentals) for a lousy 33% discount off our payout figure, then at a 50% discount. VERY UNHAPPY with these settlement offers and the LAW FIRM, a group of us sought advice from Mark Dight of Doyle Wilson Solicitors and he took over our cases around March 2009. Mark found that S.73 of the Trade Practices Act fit our circumstances (as the scams are much the same) and it would also give us an opportunity if we win to put us back in the financial position were in prior to signing those contracts. Macquarie had pursued many of us in the Local Court as we had ceased our payments, & S.73 does not apply in the Local Court so Mark made an application to the FEDERAL COURT using one test case for the Federal Court to rule in our favour and grant a motion to hear S.73 in the Federal Court. Macquarie would have preferred to hear the matters in the Local Court of course and strenuously opposed our application. We also had representation of Senior Counsel from Brisbane Mr Richard Liley SC with Mark Dight and on the 3 August 2009 OUR MOTION WAS GRANTED. We have since transferred that case to the Federal Court and are in the process of transferring each of our other matters to the Federal Court and are looking at running one or a number of test cases to trial.
Mark is also looking at doing the same for our other members financed by Tech Leasing & Capital. Our group members cover four states, NSW, SA, VIC & QLD and we understand there were over 700 small business affected with the collapse of Fresh Telecoms. We are very happy with his efforts since March 09 & are now moving forward putting the previous year behind us. If you are interested & would like to have an opportunity to regain moneys paid to these financiers, may I suggest you email me your contact names & phone numbers. The more numbers in one group the more power we will have over the finance companies and with a large group it will reduce all our costs. Whichever telecommunications company you were with the scams have similar links and you are welcome to join us. It may even be possible for the lawyers to work together in co-operation and reduce all our costs. I know our firm would be happy to communicate with other law firms involved in similar circumstances.
ERIN B.
Very good news.
That is what I have been saying for ages, to win, it has to be in the Federal Court so that fraud, etc can be brought into the equation and we can countersue for damages.
This may be the first case to get to the Federal Court, and may become a test case and precident for everyone else.
Ray McGrath is working on a case as well against EFS and I think it is also going to be in the Federal Court, but it won't get there until next year - if it gets that far.
Fresh Telecoms seem to be more predominent in Qld, although there are a few others on here that are also with them.
Please make sure you keep everyone updated.
I have found that the Finance Companies talk tough to get the easy targets to keep paying each month, but once they are up against an aggressive solicitor they back right off.
Macquarie are one of the more aggressive Finance Companies out there, so if you are with them and stop paying, make sure you have one of these solicitors on board to fight for you.
Joined: 17/August/2009
Location: Australia
Posts: 7
Posted: 17/August/2009 at 19:59
Dear Fellow Victims Of Telecommunications Bundled Packages,
In July 2008 I became a victim of a company called FRESH TELECOMS that went belly up like the others. I became part of a group that engaged a law firm to fight this case 1 year ago. The law firm pressured us to settle the outrageous offers with Macquarie Bank (Macquarie Equipment Rentals) for a lousy 33% discount off our payout figure, then at a 50% discount. VERY UNHAPPY with these settlement offers and the LAW FIRM, a group of us sought advice from Mark Dight of Doyle Wilson Solicitors and he took over our cases around March 2009. Mark found that S.73 of the Trade Practices Act fit our circumstances (as the scams are much the same) and it would also give us an opportunity if we win to put us back in the financial position were in prior to signing those contracts. Macquarie had pursued many of us in the Local Court as we had ceased our payments, & S.73 does not apply in the Local Court so Mark made an application to the FEDERAL COURT using one test case for the Federal Court to rule in our favour and grant a motion to hear S.73 in the Federal Court. Macquarie would have preferred to hear the matters in the Local Court of course and strenuously opposed our application. We also had representation of Senior Counsel from Brisbane Mr Richard Liley SC with Mark Dight and on the 3 August 2009 OUR MOTION WAS GRANTED. We have since transferred that case to the Federal Court and are in the process of transferring each of our other matters to the Federal Court and are looking at running one or a number of test cases to trial.
Mark is also looking at doing the same for our other members financed by Tech Leasing & Capital. Our group members cover four states, NSW, SA, VIC & QLD and we understand there were over 700 small business affected with the collapse of Fresh Telecoms. We are very happy with his efforts since March 09 & are now moving forward putting the previous year behind us. If you are interested & would like to have an opportunity to regain moneys paid to these financiers, may I suggest you email me your contact names & phone numbers. The more numbers in one group the more power we will have over the finance companies and with a large group it will reduce all our costs. Whichever telecommunications company you were with the scams have similar links and you are welcome to join us. It may even be possible for the lawyers to work together in co-operation and reduce all our costs. I know our firm would be happy to communicate with other law firms involved in similar circumstances.
Joined: 17/August/2009
Location: Australia
Posts: 1
Posted: 17/August/2009 at 00:49
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Joined: 25/September/2008
Location: Australia
Posts: 60
Posted: 18/July/2009 at 08:10
These links below, show various articles that have been written that explain what has happened very well. A good read.
> http://cspcentral.com.au/2009/02/finance-company-doesnt-even-know-it-funds-telco-bundles/#more-1796
A very good summary of the whole mess, as is the others below, with slightly different approaches. All worth a read.
>
> http://cspcentral.com.au/2009/02/big-banks-in-denial-over-telco-scam/
> this is the web page from CSP Central 12.2.2009
> Very good reading and a spot on description of the scam.
>
> http://cspcentral.com.au/2008/11/big-names-behind-telco-finance-scam/
> a 15.11.08 report similar to the latest, worth a read.
>
> http://cspcentral.com.au/2008/10/accc-launches-telco-trade-practices-blitzkrieg/
> this is the page when ACCC listed who it was attacking in this scam and explains it quite well. dated 2.2.08
Joined: 25/September/2008
Location: Australia
Posts: 60
Posted: 18/July/2009 at 08:00
Originally posted by Anjos
Thunder,
The benefit of pursuing the finance company directly is that it will shake up the industry, protect and indemnify victims and ensure honest dealings in the future.
Wonderful optimistic outcome, but how does pursuing the fin.coys direct guarantee what you say will happen?
It seems like there are a lot of scams around and no doubt the consequential victims.
I am involved in a similar situation with the same bunch of cunning organiations.
Anyway getting back to the point what happened with your case in NSW? Were you legally represented? Why did the court find against you? Who were the solicitors on behalf of MEF? There is a chance that I will be dealing with these people and any infomation would help.
well ive just been screwed by worldtel/macquarie equipment finance for the best part of 30K for a phone system i did not recieve. Being a melbourne based business we had to deal wit the NSW legal system which seems to lack common sense at best and promotes common theft at worst.
The solicitors who work on behalf of MEF are the biggest bunch of smug bast-rds i have ever had to face and whoever brings them down i am willing to help in what ever way i can.
With respect to Ray. Collecting witnesses for current matters does not resolve the problem. I have estimated that the costs of pursuing the finance companies will be $100 per month per person.
The benefit of pursuing the finance company directly is that it will shake up the industry, protect and indemnify victims and ensure honest dealings in the future.
Waiting around to defend an action is, in my opinion, unwise. Having 20, 30 or 40 witnesses front up to Court does not alleviate the stress and cost that each individual will have to endure in defending such an action. If a class or group action is commenced then all victims are represented and all potential future victims will not have to endure what others have endured.
I am happy to represent each person individualy and call dozens of witnesses and charge three times as much money for the privilege however it does nothing for the victims, potential victims or justice.
Their conduct is so repugnant that it must be addressed in a class action so as to right the worngs committed and stop the wrongs from continuing.
Joined: 27/November/2008
Location: Australia
Posts: 20
Posted: 07/July/2009 at 17:33
Ray McGrath at Guttentag Lawyers is well underway with a case against EFS.
EFS are on shaky ground and he will be asking us to join in and be witnesses in this case.
He seems to think EFS will fold before it even gets to Court and he is seeking surity against EFS to make sure they don't go broke without paying the legal costs.
He is also representing victims of Macquarie Finance.
His fees are very reasonable, and instead of suing the finance company - which has a lot of costs attached to it, he is waiting for the finance company to take action against us, which minimises our costs.
From what I have heard, Attwood Marshall have only negotiated lesser settlements, but you have to pay around $300/month to be part of their class action.
Ray is acting for 4 clients against EFS in a court case (next year) and is hoping to get as many other EFS victims as possible to win the case and to make sure it is the only court case, as the same witnesses will help in each case if it goes to Court.
No matter who you are having problems with, contact Ray and see if he can help you.
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