"Public" urination fine on private property

Hi guys,

At a friend's party recently the police received noise complaints (there was a band playing) and arrived to the party. Soon after shutting off the music they realised there was no drama of any sort and kind of floated around the outside the party. It was at this point when they discovered me taking a pee. (trying to do the 3-4 women that needed to use the toilet a favour by peeing outside and reducing the numbers in the line for the toilet)

They waited for me to finish and then i saw them waiting for me. The police man was very provocative and seemed to try to provoke me into making a real issue/argument of it, however i kept my cool and made a conscious effort to co-operate. He got my licensed details and told me that i'd "maybe" recieve a fine for public urination.

This may seem like a small issue, and it is, however i just received the fine and it is $489. And i absolutely want to appeal this. It's obviously a bored cop trying to reach quota, which is not fair on me because i'm currently unemployed and struggling financially as it is.

Here's the kicker: The place i urinated was not actually a public place. It was the backyard block next door to where the party was hosted (the backyards join onto a public car park, that's where the police were). Granted, it wasn't the party hoster's property, but it was not public. My friend who hosted the party knows the woman who owns the block next door and can get her to sign any letter that i write if i want.

Do you think i have a case?

And if i do, how do i go about this?? I've never appealed anything before. Do i write a letter? Do i ring them up? Do i have to go to court? Will it cost me anything?

Thanks in advance for any advice on this!

Is it visible from a public place?

On your side of the story, yes you have grounds. But what will the police say they saw? It will be an I said/He said argument. I say i wasn't, Police say I was.

If I was you I would object to the ticket and ask for the matter to be dealt with at court. When you get your summons you then request a copy of the brief from Police and see what their version of events is, and make your decision from there.

Even if for some reason down the track you decide to not contest it at court, and plead guilty, you will find that the court will give a penalty no where near what the penalty notice fine is.

Possibly a good behaviour bond without conviction, for a first offence.

There should be clear instructions on the notice of offence on how you can elect to have this matter dealt with by the court. Make sure you act quickly as there are time limits for responding. It should be as simple as ticking the appropriate box and sending the notice back.

Police are cracking down on idiots who drop their trousers inappropriately and leave their calling card willy nilly on public and private property. Like the doorstep of a business or seats in the park.

However the law was never meant to be enforced against those answering an unavoidable call of nature and who take measures to do so in private as did you.

This intent is clearly articulated in note to the Queensland legislation covering the offence and is implicit in the equivalent NSW and other state legislation. At its core the act must be offensive, such as direct and clear exposure of genitalia, urinating on a statue or similar object, doorstep, into a fountain, you get the point.

In this instance, it is no more objectionable than someone who stops midway through a long trip and stops on the side of a remote roadside. And while Police can feel offended, it would be incredulous for them to state that in this instance. While a black letter law technical argument can be made, it is outside the intent of the law and should fail on that point.

Thanks for the advice everyone. I'm going to get professional help on this and fight it. (anybody want to represent me? i have a health care card)

As for the time limit to respond, how long is that??

But you've already admitted taking a "pee" - at least to us. So if you defend the matter on the basis of denial, you may find yourself in the witness box having to deny what you actually did do. Go down under those circumstances and there will be a finding against your credit and no time for technical arguments.

Sounds like you'd be better off with your "public place" argument. The right lawyer will know how to best prepare it although it sounds to me like photos and corresponding diagrams will be a good start. Admit the "pee" and take it from there. Keep the issues narrow.

Dave please ask your question in the General Forum, it is not appropriate to ask questions in someone else's thread, it can cause confusion when further posts are made, readers do not know who they are answering.

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