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Property split fairness, sorry for being lengthy

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TD View Drop Down
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  Quote TD Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Topic: Property split fairness, sorry for being lengthy
    Posted: 22/April/2012 at 16:13
Hi,
I am new to this and am lost in what to do, I have been married for over 15 yrs and now seperated and out of our home for over 2yrs officially but has been longer whilst at living in our home. I have 2 children 9 & 7. It has come to the stage of splitting assets etc.. all the things I thought would be ok as she indicated would be when I decided to move out and of course is not now.
I moved back in with family for the past 2yrs and have still paid the mortgage which is over $2k a month, I do pay child support as per the calculator and prob a bit more as I have my kids from Thur after school and returning on Sun evening for all this period and even when I was at home had them on the weekends as my ex works every weekend for the past 5+ yrs. only taken Wed off. We have been alternate every 2nd Sat night from 5:30pm with me picking them up Sun mornings again this enables me to go out with my girlfriend and start a new life.

That's a bit about my back ground and have 2 Questions:
- re splitting of the house I offered her a 60-40 split in her favour based on info I received rembembering I have still paid the mortgage alone since I seperated and not lived there. She has now comeback with wanted 75-25 her favour after speaking to what she says legal aid but I think it's friends. We agreed when I moved out that we wouldn't touch eacjph others super and she now says 75-25 split or I also go for super. This split would hurt me alot in setting up myself again and getting a place of my own instead of staying with family which I also pay board. I have my kids every weekend as I mention and that costs as I pay all things that come up ie parties, hair cuts, shoes half the Private health fund I have my car loan, credit card payments which she raked up but I am paying she only has the kids after school mon - wed and Sunday nights and only paying the utilities and food during this time.

I also have had to do the garden care as she doesn't and if I don't well the weeds and grass would be as high as the fence. I feel her requests is unreasonable. I have also another car loan which is her car i got that she has paid since separating but wants me to put it under her name which leaves me with the loan and have disagreed to this until settlement and she pays that off and I transfer to her name which I feel is fair.

- I want to review the arrangements with care of our kids not to lessen my days but move them at times giving me some week ends with full days off rather than Sat night to pick up Sun morning. Two reasons 1) so she can spend more quality time with them on weekends being young and doing things with them that the miss and comment on. 2) so I can have sometime to move on and creat a new life. I have told her I would pick up those days on a weekday ie she picks up 1 full weekend day every 2 weeks in return I pick up an extra weekday that week. She has advised me that is working schedule has been for years so why should stephe change? Firstly it's a casual job working ridiculous hrs of her choice as permanent role reduce her weekly $ and she also has had 2yrs to sort it out as we spoke re this when I moved out.

I am being walked over as I was when together she knows I m soft and uses that in fact nothing has changed since I moved out for her she has her freedom the same with out me being there.

Sorry for the lengthy story but I am really lost on what my entitlements are and what to do next. I am seeking second legal advice next week.

 

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  Quote jaazzz Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 23/April/2012 at 09:00


Fairly clear that now you have decided things need to be finalised some true colours are emerging. If she is showing no signs of being willing to compromise, then IMO you are best off initiating an application for property settlement. You should gather together the evidence you have mortgage payments since separation as this may go in your favour as post separation contributions.

At this point, you should be considering only paying 50% of the mortgage that is in excess of the 'fair rent' value of the property if she has sole use. Keep up your assessed level of child support. Employ someone to maintain the gardens if they are being neglected, keep payment records of such as necessary post separation contributions to avoid wastage of capital value.

The 60/40 division would probably be about right taking into account all assets & financial resources. If you want to exclude your super (does she have any)then depending on the size of the asset pool, this may mean a higher cut in her favour.

You will need to see a family law solicitor with all the facts & figures to ascertain exactly what a fair split may be in your case. That way your offers are backed up by good legal advice.

You should call a FDR practitioner with a view to setting up a mediation session to see if you can both agree on living & contact arrangements regarding the kids. If you reach an agreement in mediation, the service will assist you in putting together a parenting plan. If no agreement can be reached you will be issued with a certificate that will allow you to file for parenting orders with the family court. YOU CAN'T file for orders without this certificate in normal cases, so make sure you you attend FDR & get one if no plan is made & signed. If she begins to deny the kids the normal contact they have been having you then have the certificate & are ready to go.

      
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  Quote TD Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 23/April/2012 at 19:14
Thank you so much jaazzz for your reply, it is reassuring to hear some of the feedback you provide as at times you just feel alone and at a loss and this is really helpful.

Re Super yes she has super I have about $150k and she has about $55k. So I don't know what is the best scenario giving her more of the house and no super but I guess the lawyer I see Friday can help.

Re the garden this is what I was planning to do get someone in and keep the receipts.
Re the mortgage I am pretty sure see wont pay anything and the issue will be the banks taking control if I only pay 50% as it will not meet repayments.
Re the mediation I thought if she decides no changes leave as it is then I am stuck with that and I am not going to just drop the kids off and tell her that you can have them today / night as this will be damaging to the kids and ammunition for her to use with the kids.

How does this certificate for filing to the family court works I wasn't aware of this, all I want is fairness and equity around weekends and week days each of us has I am not wanting less days with my kids I still want to maintain this.

Again thank you I am not sure if this is your views or you have some experience in this field but thanks.

 

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  Quote jaazzz Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 24/April/2012 at 08:47


If your super is to be included, so should hers. If leaving super out means that more of the tangible pool is available to her & as a result she can remain in the home with the kids, then that may be the way to go. Ultimately though, you also need to come out of it with a reasonable standard of living. See what your solicitor says after seeing all the facts & figures.

Read this for all the info on FDR   Family Dispute Resolution




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  Quote iconoclast Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 24/April/2012 at 09:16
You could contact the bank and ask to go interest only until settlement. You seem very fair & reasonable - best of luck.
not legal advice

 

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  Quote TD Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 24/April/2012 at 18:05
Thank you to all, some things for me to think of and also advise my solicitor on Friday, will keep you updated after seeing my solicitor.

 

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  Quote TD Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 27/April/2012 at 22:54
Well I have seen a solicitor today as mention I would and this is the second in 2 years to get a second opinion and pretty much the same news, she would be entitled to 60% plus 50% of super. If I take her offer of 75% of the house and walk away it is a cheaper option he said and as much as it sucks and may not sound fair it is cheaper than the 60% plus 50% of super because there is nothing in writing re our agreement not to touch each others supper at time of seperation even thou mine is 100k more. Unfortunately this sucks so with my 25% and after paying debts on cards rung by her mainly and being so nice paying the mortgage the last 2years a 44yr old successful professional starts again from zero. So much for her comment of not wanting to financially ruin me while she walks away after everything with $120K and this is fair?

I have spoken to the bank thanks for advice on changing to interest only they are sending forms while the priority is to sell the house and close this off I think.

Such a bitter pill to swallow!

 

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  Quote jaazzz Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 29/April/2012 at 00:01


It never ceases to amaze me how many people (mostly blokes) come on this forum who admit to continuing to pay full mortgage costs & all other debts for years after separation.

Unless the other party agrees to take these post separation contributions into account (most don't) you will have to take it all the way to trial for a court to determine. In most cases if you are doing well financially & the other party not so well & or has primary care of children, then there is not a lot of chance that years of paying mortgage & debt will be given much weight.





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  Quote JC Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 29/April/2012 at 23:06
TD,

Fairness is not a consideration in property settlements. I empathise deeply. Fight for every cent because you'll kick yourself for not doing so later on.

As soon as her lawyer presents her with 'in range' figures, her good intentions will vanish. It's not a fun process but I hope that you can salvage something from it.

 

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  Quote TD Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02/May/2012 at 18:32
Thanks JC,
Her good intentions have already vanished and your right it's not fun, I agree I need to fight for every cent but she knows I am soft and is using that.
I always have in the back of my mine concern about her using the kids and making access to themi difficult for me.

I do know that I need to fight for what are my rights and what i deserve and need to take that risk, maybe I need to sit down with my kids and explain this to them.

 

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  Quote sharrison Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03/May/2012 at 10:18
TD, your line about "being so nice paying the mortgage the last 2years a 44yr old successful professional starts again from zero" rings scarily true to me.

I'm 42years old and my wife and I seperated in 2009. I kept paying my share of the mortage whilst living elsewhere because if I didnt, she couldnt afford the house and ultimately its my kids home.

Recovering that money doesnt bother me, but my problem is now getting my wife to get on with the divorce. I suppose she's got a good deal and doesnt want it to end. In hindsight, I do regret my generousity a bit.

 

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  Quote Greatdad10 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03/May/2012 at 11:33
Originally posted by TD


I always have in the back of my mine concern about her using the kids and making access to themi difficult for me.


After she's bleed you dry she may/will likely do this anyway, just for added spite. Go to the court and do the right thing the first time, otherwise you'll pay and pay, then have to do it anyway.

Cut your losses.
Not legal advice.

 

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  Quote TD Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10/May/2012 at 18:15
Thank you Sharrison all sounds so similar, whilst thinking its best for the children by assisting the ex, at the end of the day it has not been about the children in her eyes but how much the she can get away with. Frankly life hasn't changed for her actually it's better....

Greatdad 10, I totally agree I will pay and pay the drama is which is the least to pay chewing it up in court fees and getting nothing, I really am not sure as much as i would love to i don't think I am going to get that money back or part of it, that's what my lawyer thinks.

Another spin to this is with the 2 options
- option (1) 60% of house equatity and 50%of super - she has told me that she gets the 50% of super paid upfront to which I said no the difference in super my claim on hers and hers on mine (clearly she gets more as I have more super) goes into her super account. She thinks she gets that upfront also?????
-option (2) 75% of house equatity and walk away no super touched!

She knows overal option 2 is cheaper but leaves me bugger all to pay my debts, so I am thinking of buying her out and offering 70% walkway and then rent out the house whilst the value goes up?

My questions are:
- Is there any dangers re doing this I need to know about
- am I correct about the super



I have put another spin and that is buying her out

 

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  Quote JC Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10/May/2012 at 18:40
IF she thinks that a super splitting order means that she'll get cash then she's kidding herself. Exchanges of super are from one fund to the other so all it'll do is boost her super balance.

Are the figures you've listed based on her ambit claims or are they from your own lawyer?

Also, don't think for a moment that she has any right to keep your kids from you as a way of forcing you to settle for figures you're not happy with. I speak from experience. Your kids have the right to spend substantial and significant time with both parents so don't let your ex pressure you.

Standard single mother's club tactics are to keep the kids from their father in order to maximise their takings in property settlements and to maximise their CS. Don't fall for it, and don't give in in an attempt to be the nice guy.

 

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  Quote Daisy5 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10/May/2012 at 23:17
What is it with this forum lately. Lately there has been creeping in this idea that women are money hungry, uncaring, kid stealing, welfare dependent trolls/trogs. This type of talk doesn't help anyone.

There may be women who withhold kids for financial gain, but there are men who do the same thing too. There are parents of both genders who back stab the other parent to get the kids to live with them.

The notion that all men are innocent victims of greedy women is offensive and false.

TD if 75% of house is $120,000, and she doesn't touch your super, then you come out of it with total assets exceeding hers. Her - $120,000 plus $55,000 super. You $40,000 (25%of house) plus $150,000 super. That is a good deal, and would save you the hassle of super split and court in my opinion. That is if I have the numbers right.

 

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  Quote JC Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10/May/2012 at 23:33
92% of CSA payers are male. That means that of the 1.4 million people subject to CSA administration and/or collection only 8% are female. That also indicates that 92% of the CSA's customers aren't the primary carers of their kids. To me that would suggest that 92% of that 1.4 million people fared poorly in the division of their assets and then have to contend with the FLA and CSA straight after losing everything or very close to it. Can't you see why that sentiment might seem to be gaining momentum?

 

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  Quote MartinO Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10/May/2012 at 23:40
Thread seems to be going off topic somewhat TD started this and I think he has his answers, I'll leave the thread open in case he hasn't. But the rest of you who wish to discuss the rights and wrongs of child support and associated matter might like to start a discussion thread over in the general area at the top of the board, and discuss away to your hearts content, but please keep it civil.
I am NOT a lawyer. Anything said is NOT legal advice.

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  Quote TD Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11/May/2012 at 01:43
Thanks to all,

I actually do not come out on top if you add the $58k in mortgage I have paid the last 2.5 yrs for my ex to live there when my ex has not paid a cent and i have had to board in a room for that period and pay for that whilst still paying the child support each month on top of that. I think the scale has been tipped the wrong way to what was verbally agreed.

Anyway I agree it has been getting off the topic as i really just wanted advice on what is fair outcome financially for me and I guess I will just need to make a call on it based on everyones dvice and deal with the outcome fair or not and forget the past $$$ that have been wasted.

The biggest learning of all........doesn't matter how long the relationship was whether you are a male or female in this circumstance if there is a verbal commitment or understanding get it in writing before continuing to do what you perceive as being a nice thing as It just may not turn out that way when it comes down to the $$$$$, the tone and verbal agreement that all changes things.

Let's wait and see what happens.

Thank you

 

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  Quote JC Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11/May/2012 at 08:36
Apologies MartinO, TD and other forum members. I'll keep my ranting to a subdued minimum in future.

 

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wantpeace View Drop Down
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  Quote wantpeace Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11/May/2012 at 08:56
The biggest mistake that is repeated here time and time again - and my partner did the exact same thing even thought I told him so many times what was written here - is the assumption that when you pay mortgage after separation it is added back in. We were $25 000 out of pocket when his and ex's house finally sold 2 years after separation. And there was only $30 000 once bills were paid so not even enough to pay for moving the furniture for hubby.

The more I read posts here the more I come to the assumption that everyone needs to understand that anything you voluntarily pay either while married or after separation is not relevant in a settlement becaue you agreed to pay it at the time. If you don't bother with a signed agreement than the assumption will be 'you agreed to pay so you can't go back in retrespect and say I dodn't agree'.

If I won the lottery tomorrow (or won that biggy earlier this week) I would pay for a TV add telling people this.

 

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