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Topic Closedis it hard to sue the government

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hobo1975 View Drop Down
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Direct Link To This Post Topic: is it hard to sue the government
    Posted: 04/March/2013 at 22:23
can the government be sued,is it difficult and expensive?
are there lawyers who work for free for righteous causes that are not government organizations?

MartinO View Drop Down
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04/March/2013 at 22:45
Yes, it is possible but often there are better methods. You may find a civil rights lawyer who will take the case on, but it depends what the case is all about. Remember if you lose it could cost you a lot of money because the government department will attempt to recover their costs in defending the matter from you.

How about you explain your situation and why you believe it is necessary to enter into legal action against some government department.
I am NOT a lawyer. Anything said is NOT legal advice.

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hobo1975 View Drop Down
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04/March/2013 at 23:06
i would like the government to be sued for fluoridating our water supply.They are poisoning our society on mass,forcing a so called "medication" on everyone, it is a proven poison.Fluoride causes a whole list a problems including,dental fluorosis,skeletal fluorosis, cancer,arthritis,decrease in intelligence,male infertility,thyroid diseases,endocrine disruption,diabetes,cardiovascular,kidney disease, gastrointestinal effects,acute toxicity etc.
its harder for science to lie and there is overwhelming science that support this,scientist,doctors and as well as academics.the more i study into this the angrier i get,the action groups against fluoridation are not very effective so i thought a law suit might highlight this injustice?

MartinO View Drop Down
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04/March/2013 at 23:18
Sorry you do not have a case. I know this is a hot topic, but unless you can produce an expert witness who supports your stand, any case will fail.

Expert witnesses who work in this area are of the opinion that a fluoridated water supply is for the benefit of the people.

I'm afraid I agree with them. I was born in a part of the world where the water contains natural fluoride much higher than the recommended dose. If there was any truth in your assertions, epidemiological studies would have identified this years ago. They have not.

If you are suffering from any of the conditions that you listed, perhaps you should consult your doctor for referral to an appropriate specia-list for proper treatment.





Edited by MartinO - 04/March/2013 at 23:19
I am NOT a lawyer. Anything said is NOT legal advice.

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hobo1975 View Drop Down
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04/March/2013 at 23:35
http://www.fluoridealert.org/researchers/professionals-statement/

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pkuHo2xFJr0

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Zk8OVcGaReo


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WFpbwsITZtI

Dont be so gullible do some research.plenty more information if you want it, do the research.
My doctor is treating me and my health has dramatically improved,my treatment was addressing the removal and repair of fluoride poisoning.Non of the spexts i have seen have helped me at all.

Edited by hobo1975 - 04/March/2013 at 23:39

MartinO View Drop Down
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04/March/2013 at 23:44
Anyone can post assertions on the Internet, unfortunately you need evidence that cannot be successfully refuted to win a court case.

Don't be so gullible, do some research. Plenty more information if you want it, do the research.

I do not have to do the research, it is you who wish to mount the case, I have just predicted that any case you mount, base on current evidence, will fail.

Now I'll leave this open for others to comment, but really the thread is not the place to be debating the matter. You asked how to do it, I told you, but added that your case is unlikely to succeed.

That is my position, I do not intend debating the matter here.



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hobo1975 View Drop Down
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04/March/2013 at 23:58
Dissapointed with your response,i presented information by professionals that are citing scientific information,and you couldn't bother watching them.Here is a whole list of scientific evidence, have a look;

http://www.fluoridealert.org/researchers/

would this be adequate information for a case?
would a case be stronger if i related it to me?

Still appreciate your time!

Edited by hobo1975 - 04/March/2013 at 23:59

jaazzz View Drop Down
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05/March/2013 at 00:31


If you can find a case where a govt body has been successfully sued anywhere in the world for fluoridating a public water supply then that would be a start. Not sure you will find one.

The other argument you will be up against is that regardless of the water supply, you always have the option of consuming rain or bottled water, even plumbing rain water to your bathroom if you wish to avoid skin contact with fluoridated water. Nobody is forcing you to consume it.




Edited by iconoclast - 05/March/2013 at 02:46
Any opinion given should not be accepted as legal advice.

Please post your legal questions in a forum rather than sending a PM. Thanks

MartinO View Drop Down
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05/March/2013 at 00:38
would this be adequate information for a case?

No, it would not, they do not represent expert witnesses.

would a case be stronger if i related it to me?

One persons condition does not represent a epidemiological study, neither would 100 people who believed they suffered from something due to a chemical in the water.

A proper study would require a large sample of people, around half of whom had been subject to the chemical over a long period of time and the other half who had never been subject to the chemical.

The group should be selected randomly, not because they appeared to be suffering from some condition.

All of the people should then be examined by independent medical experts who were blind to the fact that they had or had not been subject to the chemical.

Once the results were examined, if it was found that those who had been subject to the chemical has a greater incident of some condition than the other group, a scientific conclusion could be reached.

No such conclusion has ever been reached.

In fact in the area that I was born, where people had been partaking of fluoride in their water for many generations, if there was any truth the assertions of the fluoride alert group, there would be a very high incident of some diseases, there is none.

However what there is, is evidence of very good teeth from that part of the world, and it is this fact that encouraged researchers around 60 years ago to promote the addition of fluoride to drinking water of other people.






Edited by MartinO - 05/March/2013 at 00:42
I am NOT a lawyer. Anything said is NOT legal advice.

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hobo1975 View Drop Down
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05/March/2013 at 00:51
there are cases in the USA.
That is the problem we are being forced,it is in our food and drinks.how many products do you know that we consume that do not contain water or other products made from water? Why should it be forced on people,isnt there anything in the our constitution or laws that state this?have you ever heard of a so called "medication" that is given to all people of all ages at undefined quantities?ask your pharmacist its unheard of.

MartinO View Drop Down
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05/March/2013 at 01:19
Have a read of Wikipedia on the subject. Take note of the historical facts presented.

Should you ever chose to take this to court without presenting scientific data, and an expert witness to present it and be cross examined on it, I'm afraid your case will fail.

As Jaazzz stated you have alternatives available to you if you desire, and there are food stuffs available that do not contain town water.







Edited by MartinO - 05/March/2013 at 03:07
I am NOT a lawyer. Anything said is NOT legal advice.

Please post your legal questions in a forum rather than sending a PM. Thanks.

iconoclast View Drop Down
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05/March/2013 at 03:05

Oh hobo1975 - perhaps your online name pretty much says it all. Oh doesn't that word "HOBO" actually mean homeless one??? Yes so my dictionary says - go figure!

Regrettably the science - no sorry THE OVERWHELMING SCIENCE - simply IS NOT IN YOUR FAVOUR despite this being your perhaps new pet subject.

Oh what the hell would I know? Naturally you will take no heed of me - but let us REALLY examine the FACTS:
The last Aussie state ever to mandate fluoridation of water was Qld. Now let us compare and contrast the Qld stats for dental caries and the many resultant health issues versus any other civilised state (ALL other states) in the country. Ooops - not on your chosen websites is it? What a surprise! Gosh - heck darn - WHY IS THAT SO HOBO???

Don't like fluoride hey? Get a water filter and let everyone else benefit from fluoride in the water. By all means condemn your own beloved family to dental caries and the PROVEN health risks of that you know or ought to know - [or do you actually "know" about?] all the PROVEN low level dental infections putting stress on the immune systems of those affected, the PROVEN increased dental caries, all those PROVEN extra abscesses requiring antibiotic treatment etc etc) - sheesh the list goes on. But I suppose that you will be completely uninterested in that and just mindlessly expect us to believe that this is yet another "conspiracy" by - who knows - governments, the bauxite industry or whatever the latest alleged drivel they dish up actually is.

Some people still believe that the world is flat. Thank goodness the people who fluoridate water are not amongst those alleged imbeciles. What a relief for those of us who have a clue.

Guess what? I never had a dental cary until I was preganant with my youngest child at age 32 - when drinking (damn it) unfluoridated water. Oh and IQ? Get real - no problems here - in the top 1% and guess what so are my ALWAYS FLUORIDATED children (because I am a responsible parent) so your allegegedly pathetic but baseless argument simply does not wash with the truly informed. Perhaps one day you may become one of us - but I sincerely doubt it HOBO given your stated stance.

Please find a real cause to fight for and stop reading the nonsense you have been deceived by and now expect the more intelligent of us to suck up from you and those ridiculous websites above posted. Please - get real mate!

This IS NOT a legal matter. Forget it or do persist and continue to embarrass yourself as being a - sorry - allegedly gullible person. Please spend your obvious energy pursuing A REAL ISSUE like maybe climate change or real injustice - or get a REAL education please I beg you.

Cheers

Edited by iconoclast - 05/March/2013 at 03:24
not legal advice

googles View Drop Down
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05/March/2013 at 03:51


Natural fluoride..?

The stuff they use certainly does not appear natural, and what goes in the water is not even the standard fluoride as far as I know. It's actually appears to be waste with a similar name.

People have been complaining about this for years, and from what I know recently things have been moving along well in Australia.

Apparently about 10 Aussie towns recently had the supply turned off successfully. If you need keen and educated contacts about this let me know.

Don't think you necessarily have to take legal action to make progress with this.



.

Edited by googles - 05/March/2013 at 04:03
I'm here to assist others with their legal problems but my thoughts are absolutely those of a layman. From here on I will stick to that resolve and stop going off topic.

googles View Drop Down
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05/March/2013 at 04:08

For QLD

Did not read the below link, but it seems to now rest with the councils. I heard 10 places in QLD have had it successfully dumped already. Sounds like you need local council numbers to force the issue.

http://www.fluoridealertaustralia.org

Edited by googles - 05/March/2013 at 04:10
I'm here to assist others with their legal problems but my thoughts are absolutely those of a layman. From here on I will stick to that resolve and stop going off topic.

iconoclast View Drop Down
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05/March/2013 at 04:18

yes googles - NATURAL FLUORIDE. Please do some actual research - it exists mate.

Qld really is behind the times and as has been shown is deeply affected by some "activists" who spout the same allegedly discredited nonsense as that posted by hobo. Only in Queensland! The only state with really bad dental health.... As the actual SCIENCE PROVES - but why on earth spoil a good conspiracy story for the BORING FACTS of the matter? Do you actually KNOW or have you actually researched the FACTS??? No I guess not!

But you would know that [this fluoridation as a risk] bulldust was exactly that if and only if if you liked to read credible science. But you have told me on 3 separate occasions that you do not like to read - so how exactly do you come to those conclusions to which you allude? So much for the science! Or is it just WAY TOO inconvenient to avail yourself with the facts? Reading is such hard work is it not???

Just because some oh so fabby politicians in the oh so fabby state of Qld were afraid of some oh so fabby nonsense and wanted to save a few bucks at public health level and their oh so fabby seats on allegedly not so credible hick town councils - so are the intelligent amongst us to think this right and proper? (BTW fabulous = incredible and please see a dictionary about what "fabulous" actually means).

This fluoridation beat up is just that - a diversion for those not engaged in thinking and reason so the knee-jerk won again in oh so fabby Qld - and that is supposed to be evidence??? Yes evidence of a disregard for science AND public health. Oh sigh! How tedious it is to deal with the illiterate and uninformed on this subject - what a boring distraction from the real issues I say.

I guess that is why all those idiots go to university - to read and learn THE FACTS. Of course some "activists" would prefer we all sucked up the absoluetly discredited nonsense on the web. By all means share more alleged nonsense with hobo - share the pain - why ever not??? Idiots love it and will it seems suck up any amount of discredited nonsense and bugger the facts.
QED.


Edited by iconoclast - 05/March/2013 at 04:39
not legal advice

MartinO View Drop Down
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05/March/2013 at 14:14
OK Folks I'll close this, the OP asked a question about suing the government, I sought some information from him about the details and advised him what he would need to prove to succeed. I also gave him my ideas on his likely chances of success.

Now others are coming on board wanting to argue the facts, Yes Fluorine does exist naturally, usually as fluorspar CaF. Fluorine is an element on the periodic table, one of the Halogens. It was mined in the area that I was born and was the reason for the high level of fluoridation of the ground water that the inhabitants of that area had been drinking for centuries without apparent ill effect.

I've deleted two insulting posts. Those who posted them know who they are and are warned that any such future occurrence will result in a suspension.

The OP has his answers. So in light of the direction this seems to be heading.

THREAD LOCKED.

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